In the last decade there has been a sharp rise in anti-Muslim and anti-Islamic feeling throughout Europe and the U.S.A. What could be the cause of this?
The Islamophobic narrative claims that the West is under attack by an alien and insidious ideology, brought to its shores by immigration, cultivated and unresisted by a weak and intimidated ‘Liberal establishment’. Under this narrative, various Islamophobic groups and individuals in the UK have risen under the banner patriotism to fight against this perceived threat to Britain, and re-claim their country for its people.
The rise of hatred against Islam masks rising discontent against immigration and economic policies, and the ‘clash of civilisations’ narrative is merely a scapegoat that allows the UK government to deflect from explaining the blowback resulting from its foreign policy. Muslims living in the UK are no more likely to be a threat to British society then any other community, but like the Jews of the 20s and 30s, they are now the target of xenophobia and mistrust. If the Fascists can successfully cultivate this hatred, they may be able to make change to the landscape of British politics permanently into a dark future which threatens values of tolerance, co-existence and right of conscience for all.
Which of these narratives is true? The Muslim Debate Initiative invites controversial speakers for both points of view to openly debate this important topic for the British community.
There will be a question and answer session for the audience to participate and address the speakers.
Tommy Robinson, leader of the English Defence League (EDL), debates Abdullah Al Andalusi, speaker and Muslim thinker on the burning question: Is Islam a threat to the west, or is Islamophobia a threat? – you decide.The event will be held on 4th October 2012, in the Conway Hall, Holborn, Central London, UK. Event begins at 7:00pm (doors open at 6:30pm). Hall capacity, 350.
UPDATE: Conway Hall has cancelled the Hall booking, please await further updates to a new location, time/date for this debate.
Categories: MDI Press Releases, MDI UK, Responses to anti-Islamic Polemics
Mr Andalusi. Will there be an discussion of Freedomphobia that Muslims have?
You can discuss whatever you want – MDI have always had open debates (and open audience comments/questions).
MDI. The global audience awaits for the open discussion of freedomphobia that Muslims have and for comments with questions.
Freedomophobia that Muslims have? Firstly, freedom does not exist, no one has freedom to do whatever they want – we do not live in anarchies – but under state law. Secondly, is it not the far-right who actually hate ‘freedom’, since they wish to deny freedom to Muslims to live and practice their faith as they see fit within the law. The Nazis liked to use the slogans of ‘freedom’ too, and we all know how much ‘freedom’ they implemented…
Felipe said “since they wish to deny freedom to Muslims to live and practice their faith as they see fit within the law”.
Which body of law are you referring to here?
British law obviously, is there any other which the Queen of England enacts?
Why does the so called ‘Queen of England’ enact British law?
Mr Felipe, You are veering from the question with spin.
No I haven’t avoided the question – I answered it head on, you are just too intellectual bankrupt to respond to my answer, and you know I am right 🙂 Muslims do not care about how other people choose to live, as long as other people to not deprive them of their right to choose how they want to live. The battle is not between ‘freedom’ and Islam, but rather the battle is between fascism and equality. Muslims want equality, fascists do not want Muslims to have the same equality in independence and freedom that the ‘indigenous’ people have.
It is 1920/30s Germany all over again…
Hallo Filipe, First of all when Muslims use slurs they are to daunt people. Where is the hospitality of tolerates with peace you Muslims are suppose to have? Muslims do not care how people live their lives so you have been ignoring the history from Muhammad of his marauders through the duration to present times. Muslims attitude is to have superiority this is parity to them and people are aware of this now. The attire of wanting a caliphate is the golf game in propaganda in focus. Just follow the constitution of the country you are in and the laws. Muslims whom left their land of indigenous did so because things were not so great there hey. Than they move to other countries to eventually start to want to spread we want to teach other people are ways or we will kick your wazoo. Yes Muslims have freedomphobia as you!
I’m not sure if English is your first langauge, because your message was a litte hard to read.
But I notice that you like to make up a lot of claims, but you have no proof that Muslims are attacking freedom in the Wst – in fact, many western researchers have looked into the ‘Islamic takeover of the West’ far-right story, and concluded is is baseless, and simply made-up (i.e. lies and propaganda).
Go and read ‘the myth of the Muslim tide’ is got tons of facts, surveys and government stats that refute all the far-right propaganda.
Until then, please read this: http://www.juancole.com/2012/07/the-three-lies-michele-bachmann-tells-about-american-muslims-saunders.html
After reading that, I’ll expect an apology from you for your ignorance 🙂
Yes I do notice that as well. promulgate sentences is like something come out of a Google translate, difficult to understand. I guess he’a just too much reading Islamophobes materials
Awesome : )
Filipe said “British law obviously”.
Why obviously? How am I supposed to know?
“Muslims do not care about how other people choose to live, as long as other people to not deprive them of their right to choose how they want to live.”
Are you speaking for all Muslims? Or just the minority that don’t want to live under Sharia law?
Do cannibals also have the right to choose how they want to live?
“Do cannibals also have the right to choose how they want to live?”
No. What is your point?
I don’t see how Muslims wanting to live under Sharia Law or not influences how they feel about people living as they wish.
” freedom does not exist, no one has freedom to do whatever they want– we do not live in anarchies – but under state law” – Totally agree !
Western hypocrisy alive and kicking.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
Sir Lola, You can go live within a country where there is real tryanny like Syria or most middle eastern countries. Than people like you will stop decrying. because you are able to express yourself just as you are on this website. In countries where you cannot openly chat the government will shut off website and etc. Also there are people who do have the agenda of freedomphobia. Would you be one? hypocrisy is your middle name.
There is tyranny everywhere only you choose to ignore your own and continuously point out others. – Hypocrisy ! What is more, Western tyranny has reached further and for a much longer time than any other society has.
I don’t know what people you are referring to, I only live in the UK and I can assure you that by definition there is no “freedom” here either. You still have to live by rules and laws just like others have to live by theirs. And quite frankly, it is ridiculous to take your own (not so great) beliefs as the standard by which others should set theirs.
Lastly, if you are so happy here than I suggest YOU SHUT UP and go live your ‘great’ life and give your ignorant and prejudice views a rest.
Its obvious that I was referring to the law of the country that Muslims live in – are you trying to be facetious?
When I said ““Muslims do not care about how other people choose to live, as long as other people to not deprive them of their right to choose how they want to live.” I meant ALL Muslims.
I believe in 100% of the Sharia, and think it to be a far superior system to the current examples of law systems in the world, HOWEVER, the Sharia only has authority over Muslims, it instructs us not to impose it over non-Muslims. Read what the Quran says, and consider yourself, duly educated:
Quran 10:99 And if your Lord had compelled, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers? (i.e. how can anyone force all the people to be believers when God did not Will it that way).
Quran 3:20 “So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.”
Quran 2:256 “Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.”
As for your question:
“Do cannibals also have the right to choose how they want to live?” The answer is YES, they can choose how they live too, they just cannot choose to kill people (presumably for their supper lol).
Got any better questions?
Greetings Lola, You are doing neologism of all you wright about shucking the blame of Muslims bad behavior to other people in perpetual motion.
Filipe, Most Muslims ignore 1450 years of history of how they got sprawled in expansionism. People in present time are more aware of islam. So the adman is trying to keep people in bizarro thought. Ad-lib will out work in people over Muslims modifying creeping behavior.
‘Promulgate’, most ignoramuses ignore the fact that the last ‘expansionist’ war by Muslims, was 331 years ago! But let us NOT ignore the last 1000 years of European history of aggressive wars, colonialism, massacres of native populations, concentration camps (Boer War) and slavery. Aggressive wars, I might add, which are still on-going.
And despite all the horrific history of Western countries, you still have the gall to come on this forum and talk about ‘creeping behaviour’ of invited immigrants to fuel your blind hatred? There exists no single example, throughout history, of invited/welcome immigrants EVER taking over a country. The only example of (uninvited) immigrants taking over a country, is Zionist immigration to Palestine (but you’ll never use that example lol!).
Come back when you have better arguments to use – your ignorance bores me.
Filipe, Aggressive wars happen all over the globe that is nothing old. What you or some Muslims do is use divergence to something else. That is spin with psychobabble!
though you make many elegant points articulately, your pride seems alienating. The substance of your words may be dulled by your outward demeanour towards the less fortunately educated. Nonetheless, my hat is duely tipped.
Filipe, you really think the last ‘expansionist’ war ‘by Muslims’ was in 1681? Ignoring the problems around the words ‘expansionist’ and ‘Muslim’, and the fact that Muslim ruled states receded in territory simply because they were technologically disadvantaged (not because of a moral revelation), it should be obvious that such a wildly absolute claim is unlikely to be true. Plenty of Muslim rulers, in plenty of places, went to war against their neighbours and took what territory they could. The whole world was not confined to the European part of the Ottoman Empire.
As to immigrants ‘taking over’ a country, we have, in chronological order: Goths taking over parts of the Roman Empire, the English taking most of Britannia, the English colonists on the East Coast of America (in some cases, such as Philadephia, they were ‘invited’), the Americans in Texas (they were ‘invited’ in by the Mexicans but eventually declared independance), the British in the Traansvaal (hence the second Boar War); and these are only a snapshot. You seemed to say that the only example of takeover by uninvited immigrants was Israel, and I wonder what sort of a mindset and exposure to propoganda can lead to such a positive assertion of something you must know is untrue, if you think to check. Most peoples (except for Israel, ironically) are not situated where they were 2/3 thousand years ago, so obviously a great deal of migration has happened in that time, along with a great deal of conquest and cultural assimilation. Leaving aside the America’s and Australasia, most pastoral people’s were frequently migratory. The Scotii (hence the word ‘Scotland’) were an Irish tribe, the Roman Empire (in the West) was brought down by waves of migrating pastoral farmers, the Turkic people originated from the Asian steppes beside China, but now have (through assimilation, conquest, and migration,) Turkey and Istanbul as home. The Serbs complain about the Albanians of Kosovo being outsiders who’ve migrated. The Soviet Union settled outsiders onto its non-Russian territories to weaken local nationalisms; not only is this a divisive problem in most states but in some of them it has led to breakaway Moscow-backed states, such as TransDniester (I’ve misspelled it) in Moldova/Moldavia. Another example is the ongoing state-backed migration of Han Chinese into Tibet, in order to destroy the potential of the latter as an independant country. And, of course, the Traansvaal and Orange Free State were themselves the result of migrants setting up their own state.
So, your assertions that concern about migrarion are irrational because demographic changes are never important and cannot lead to a takeover, are wrong, as is your assertion that Israel is historically unique or the implication that Israel is uniquely iniquitous, and your earlier attempt to whitewash Muslim history (no aggressive wars for 331 years) and simultaneously paint the West (for want of better word) in as black a way as possible, imply something unpleasant about your attitude and reasoning.
You keep sneering at people and denouncing their lack of knowledge of the ‘facts’, but you remind me of Ygrette in GoT; you yourself know nothing. And you make ‘points’ to ‘win’ the argument, rather than actually enngaging in discussion, and you don’t even seem to care about the veracity of your ‘facts’.
I just felt I had to chip in.
I’m curious as to know what Muslim country lives under Shariah law at this given day and age apparently you are not very intelligent as what I have obviously seen from your commentsif you actually understand geopolitics and ask Siri to history book for once in your life you would know that there has not been an actual Islamic state since 1923 ( and no the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan is NOT an exception to that rule )
I look forward to seeing this debate. Much success to you brother Abdullah in getting a chance to put Tommy on the hot seat and expose the EDl’s bigotry against Muslims.
>MA very glad your doing event with edl. This is great chance of dawah, as probably a lot of nonmuslims will come who know little about islam. So be super nice as the Prophet was and show the proofs of islam and refute jimmy clearly iA.
ha ha ha ha cant wait pmsl
Will try my best to attend. If I can’t make it my prayers will be with you brother Andalusi! Please do your homework on the kind of arguments these people (EDL) use as they will try to divert / use red herrings and won’t think twice of lying if put on the spot.
wow felipe the response to your comments are mind-blowing. you explained the whole thing about freedom and equality ect and clearly exposed the fascist’s hypocrisy yet people are so ignorant they still go through the embarrassment and try and argue lol
Because if Muslims are the only people in the UK governed by a seperate set of laws then that is ‘equality’, but if they are just like everyone else then they are ‘unequal’?
Because if every group in the UK has its own set of laws to use then that’s unproblematic and all criticism is racist?
Because when Filipe says that he would like to see 100% of Shariah law enacted by the UK, there are no questions to ask to clarify whether he means just family and civil matters or criminal matters as well, and whether he means just arbitration by Muslim scholars or actual binding judgements by them, and about (if the latter) how you choose which school of Muslim jurisprudence or (if the former) the freedom of the individual Muslim to opt out of that process and choose secular law.
And the “fascists” aren’t at all confused by the fact that there are peope claiming to be motivated by Islam who are Anjem Choudry, or who demonstrate for the death of atheists in Bangladesh, or the death of Salman Rushdie
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