MDI America: Jesus – Prophet or God? Islam vs. Christianity
Guest Speakers:
Donald Wolan – Pastor and Mission Team Leader of Downriver Christian Community Church in Melvindale, MI
Shadid Lewis – Convert to Islam, member of the Muslim Debate Initiative & President of the Hampton Islamic Center in Hampton, VA
Categories: Christianity, Debates, MDI USA, Videos
The Muslim Debate Initiative 
Reblogged this on الله أحد and commented:
Br. Shadid’s presentation is spot on. His vast knowledge of the gospels and the old testament makes it a very convincing argument on Jesus (p) as being a prophet of God. May Allah bless br. Shadid further.
Both speakers did a good job engaging in a respectful but spirited debate.
I adore br. Shadid concise and clear presentation. In my view he is always spot on in making his arguments and his mastery of the Gospel really impress me.
To all muslims and to the all other religions across the whole world call me a fool or think again that I’m a fool, but see me as ‘little BOB’ who is a fool for ”CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD AND OUR GOD,YES.Some of you claim or ask soo many questions as to why GOD allowed christ to create 100% of man in his ” OWN IMAGE”.
For such among you question GOD for his wonderful works and others too who will never obey his WILL or understand his purpose for mankind.
FOOLISH PHARASEES(muslims)!!!!,do you think creation is all about seeing a man from the dust?!!!!. or seeing a hen hatching it’s eggs for the smaller ones to come?!!.
In the creation of GOD one special thing he created was man forming out of dust,yes we all know for sure.He therefore put his inner ability that is his garment of holiness but first his breath entered man to become a living being. The garment of holiness was a sign of an initmitate or close relation with GOD our father the invisible spirit.
The question now is, what happened next?.
The inward ability of man became corrupted because of deception of the mind from SATAN(LUCIFER) leading to a spiritual blindness,man could no longer identify himself with GOD anymore because he has become a slave to sin.Even though he created us in his own likeness there are two different things;first is the ”inner ability of GOD in us and second is the flesh of our body.The Body was separated from the spirit for the spirit had the inner ability of GOD,therefore sin became abound in the flesh for the spirit has been corrupted,Mankind began to live the Adamic life which created a hostile relationship in between GOD and him but love still remained in the sight of GOD our father.He was much interested in turning our sinful hearts into his new nature through love and manifestation.
Creation of man is not all about seeing man coming out from dust,but creation comes out of love and manifestion,let us remember christ who was born miraculously in the flesh as in the same nature of ADAM, but something unique happened in JESUS.Grabiel the angel of GOD said to mary,Oh! virgin mary,blessed is thy fruit of your womb for that child is of the HOLY SPIRIT.Now there’s a difference between the presence of GOD in a person that makes him ”HOLY and RIGHTEOUS”, and the presence of Adamic nature that makes a person become a ”sinner”.
As i said GOD was much interested in changing our sinful nature into a life filled with wisdom & knowledge about his KINGDOM in CHRIST the ‘SON’.Even though christ was born in the same nature of Adam but the presence of GOD our father the invisible spirit made him ‘HOLY’.That is why when JESUS was baptised by John the baptist GOD our father sent the ”holy spirit” to dwell in ”JESUS THE MESSIAH”.This time he decided to sacrifice his new nature in exchange for our old nature which was in Adam.Therefore christ who knew no sin was made sin on the cross for the world.GOD our father and the SON felt how much mankind was suffering for the cause of his own sin.Both felt the pain, the Agony because of sin and they could no longer behold each others GLORY!!!. But this was part of GOD’s plan to salvation for humanity.
When our old nature died with JESUS,the presence of GOD came out with a new birth,a new creation after he has redeemed all the souls from the ”FIRES OF HELL AND HADES”.Therefore love,righteousness and reconcilation were summed as the ”SPIRIT OF GRACE” which is currently and now called the ”NEW LAW IN CHRIST(MESSIAH)”,it came as a new creation in mankind. Indeed CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD, THE PRINCE OF PEACE created 100% of man in his ‘new image’ through ”LOVE AND GRACE” because GOD our father was in him.
Let this be in us that our old nature has been circumcised unto christ for us to become the NEW BORN OF GOD OUR FATHER baptising us by the power of the”THE HOLY SPIRIT” filled with love,grace,power and authority to bring the ”power of darkness” under our feet, for CHRIST LIVES IN US,YES.Therefore if anyone believes in the heart and confesses the lord jesus christ as his or her personal savior he has become the NEW BORN CREATION OF GOD our father in CHRIST.
Remember the apostles who bowed and worshipped CHRIST JESUS(the prince of peace) before his ascension into heaven, they felt that their sinful nature,the adamic nature has been nailed and crucified with him,therefore they saw their inner sense of belonging,their real home and their true nature was hidden in CHRIST and GOD our father.As a soldier for CHRIST, I charge you brethren therefore to see yourselfs as the new born creation of GOD in CHRIST whenever confession is made unto salvation,know this that, it is what is in us that makes who we are in creation,therefore creation is not by dust alone but by the Spirit of lOVE and the Spirirt of GRACE that makes us unique,special and different for GOD our father and christ in this world.
My prayer for you oh! my dear brothers that the mercies of GOD our father will come upon you gracefully and to those who are not born into the KINGDOM.
May the peace,grace and love of our lord jesus christ the savior be with you forever to eternity,AMEN!
SHALOM PEACE!!!!
mister: who told you were born singful ? you are not sigful and I can say that if you know who is Jesus you are a muslim ….
Everybody knows that the bible is clearly having prophecies about the prophet Mohammed ( pbuh) who came by the last and the 100% correct book called Quran which is written in Arabic language and give many references to many things …. Let see these prophecies in the holly bible
In the first part of the Torah it is mentioned in chapter called
Deuteronomy 18:18
[ “I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.” ]
What does that mean ?
Do you know any other brethren for Jews except Arabs if you know exactly the relation between Arabs and the Jews because the Jews are the descendant of the prophet Isac the father of Jacob and Arabs are the descendants of the prophet Ismail so Arabs and Jews are cousins or brethren according to you who is the prophet of the Arabs who came after Moses .. It’s evident , He is the prophet Mohammed ( pbuh )
Isaiah 29:12
[ “And the book is delivered to him that is not learned saying, ‘Read this, I pray thee’; and he saith, ‘I am not learned’ ]
According to you who is the unlettered prophet ?
He is the prophet Mohammed and we have the same statement repeated in the quoran in Surah ( Alaq ) that says in the beginning of the surah (Read , and the prophet Mohammed said I’m unlettered and then the angel Gabriel repeat the same statement: Read in the name of thy lord who created the human from alaq , …… etc )
So it is clearly for the wise people that whether the Quran or the Torah of the jews and the Gospel revealed to Jesus all of these books are from God almighty but Humans who changed these data recorded in the bible and in the torah or Zabour (psalm of David) and if you browser the Torah in Hebrew language it will be more accurate and obvious the word Mohammed is written directly as it is written in Arabic for people who can read Hebrew
And if anybody see the Songs of Solomon in the bible it is clearly said
Songs of Solomon 5:16 “Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehrace Bayna Jerusalem.”
Here is the translation in English :
Songs of Solomon 5:16
“His mouth is most sweet: ye, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughter of Jerusalem.”
The word Mohammed in these verse is combined to a suffix we add it in Hebrew language which they call the suffix of respect when someone is speaking about someone who is very respected in Hebrew they add the suffix – im so the word Mohammed becomes Mohammedim
Like for instance eloh => elohim which means : Allah
So this is very commun in Hebrew language
My brother, quoting from one sentence of the Holy Bible like that is very dangerous! That is why we have so many religions today. You will need to read & BELIEVE in the Holy Bible to understand its true meaning.
The Holy Bible is the only book in this world that was written by 42 different authors whom were inspired by the Holy Spirit that is read worldwide.
Jesus coming to the world was mentioned numerous times in the old testament but by different names.
Jesus death & resurrection was witnessed by many believers & non believers, even before Christianity was formed.
Moses disobedience to the LORD, was why he did not reach the promised land.
Religion will not get you to heaven my brother because GOD did not create religion, man did.
The only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. There is no other way!
May the Lord’s Blessing’s be upon us all.
Jesus spoke only what the Father, God commanded him to sy, so this make Jesus the only true perfect prophet. All the words of Jesus came directly from God.
John 12
44 And Jesus cried and said, Who believeth unto me, believeth not unto me, but unto him that sent me.
45 And who beholdeth me beholdeth him that sent me.
46 I am come a light into the world, that whoever believeth unto me remain not in the darkness.
47 And if any hear my :sayings, and guard them not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 Who rejecteth me, and receiveth not my :sayings, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I spake, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 Because I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, HE hath given me commandment, what I should say, and what I shall speak.
50 And I know that his :commandment is life eternal; what things therefore I speak, even as the Father hath said to me, thus I speak.
Now there have been and still may come men who will prophecy for God, and may even be called prophets for God, but Jesus was the only true, perfect prophet for God because he only spoke what the God the Father gave him to speak. Everything Jesus said was the Word of God. That is why the bible says Jesus is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus is the true Word of God.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Speaker of the John 1:1 is it Jesus? or John? Who is the author of the Gospel of John?
At the end of the debate a Muslim girl asks Donald Wolan “did Jesus created man?” , he answers yes !
I want to ask him if Jesus created man, then it automatically implies that God the father did not create man !!
The logical discussion will then go like this .
Did Jesus created man in totality(100 %) .If a Christian says yes then God the father did not create even 1% of man.
Then a Christian will say , no it is actually that both together created man.If both together are the creators of man then Jesus alone or God the father alone cannot be said to be the creators of man cos neither of them have created man individually .
This will tear apart the notion that Jesus is God and Father is God ,it is either both together are God or among the two only one can be God.!!!
It’s not 2 of them who created men he is one god in three (trinity)
What i want ask is, you said that is only one god that created men, so i want know the reason why christian are used to worship three gods instead of worship onegod who created both sky and earth and all mankind?
Lol. Trinity does not means three gods. Now I want to ask you.. If Allah is One, then why He has 99 names? The same thing goes with Christian. Here is the solid proof that Jesus is God Himself.
John 1: 1 – 3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
John 1: 14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Quran 19:35. It is not for God to have a child—glory be to Him. To have anything done, He says to it, “Be,” and it becomes.
Maybe this is the “Word” you talk about.
Allah’s 99 names are his names only. But trinity’s three names denotes three individuals:
The Father, who was in The Throne, Jesus who was among men, and the holy spirit. How do you draw a comparison between Allah and Trinity?
Now read this verse:
Mark 12:29. “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Jesus uses “our” here , which includes himself. How is it possible that Jesus is int the same rank as The Lord and be equal to Him?
I think we need a little bit highlight on that words. Let’s repeat once again,..
John 1: 1 – In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
You see? Highlight the words, “and the Word was God”.. which means the WORD is God Himself. And then, the Bible says,…
John 1: 14 – And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Which means, He (the Word/God) became flesh (Jesus) and live with us.
Just like we all know, God is Almighty and all Powerful. Like you said, to have anything done, He says to it, “Be,” and it becomes. If He wants to take a form of human, to be with us and save us and lead us to the truth, it is His own will. As humans, we can’t question our Almighty God’s will.
No doubt God can do anything, that we all agree to. Read the Quranic verse I quoted once again. It is not a matter of ability, it is a matter of dignity. Allah doesnot say He is unable to produce son, He says He is too glorious to have a son.
And Mary giving birth to a God makes her a mother of God. And this makes Mary the most deserving of worshipping to – which is an attack to God’s dignity.
“God have a mother too?” – another attack on God’s dignity.
So Jesus is never a God.
And ,
Mark 12:29 deserves more emphasis/highlighting than John 1: 1, John 1: 14 as the former is Jesus’ words, and the latter are of unsure authors .
And Jesus cannot be nearer to us than our skin is. But The God ( = Allah ) is nearer to us than the vein in our neck is. (Quran 50:16) .
So God doesnot need to take Jesus form to be close to us. He is already closer to us than you can imagine !
Mark 12:29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Highlight – “The Lord our God is one Lord”) “SEAL OF APPROVAL” (meaning, the FINAL/LAST word of God)
This show us, Muhammad is just a WANNABE prophet, NOT a true prophet. Do you think the angel who appeared to Muhammad in the cave was really angel Gabriel a.k.a. Jibril in Islam???
2 Corinthians 11 : 14
No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
Highlight —-> Satan (Lucifer) DISGUISES HIMSELF as an Angel Of Light.
Satan has vowed that he will do whatever to lead people astray from the truth.
Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 2953:
I went to the Prophet and tied my she-camel at the gate. The people of Bani Tamim came to the Prophet who said “O Bani Tamim! Accept the good tidings.” They said twice, ‘You have given us the good tidings, now give us something” Then some Yemenites came to him and he said, “Accept the good tidings, O people of Yemen, for Bani Tamim refused them.” They said, “We accept it, O Allah’s Apostle! We have come to ask you about this matter (i.e. the start of creations).” He said, “First of all, there was nothing but Allah, and (then He created His Throne). HIS THRONE WAS OVER THE WATER, and He wrote everything in the Book (in the Heaven) and created the Heavens and the Earth.”
Sahih Muslim, Hadith 5032:
Jabir reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: IBLIS PLACES HIS THRONE UPON WATER; he then sends detachments (for creating dissension); the nearer to him in tank are those who are most notorious in creating dissension. One of them comes and says: I did so and so. And he says: You have done nothing. Then one amongst them comes and says: I did not spare so and so until I sowed the seed of discord between a husband and a wife. The Satan goes near him and says: You have done well. A’mash said: He then embraces him.
Allah & Satan sharing the same throne??!!! What the fuck?!! I will never worship a God like that.
Satan will not come to Muhammad to teach “la ilaha illaAllah” – you are giving a pathetic argument on Muhammad and Gabriel. “The Lord our God, the Lord is one” – is truth plain to understand but satan will try as far as possible to lead people astray from the truth, as he has lead you to misinterprete Mark 12:29.
But there is something wrong with Paul- his teachings are different from Jesus’. So by combining Acts 9:3 and 2 Corinthians 11 : 14 it is clear that the light Paul met with in Damascus was satan!
And therefore, you are following teahings of satan !
And it is inappropriate to use the word “share” – Allah does not share his dignity or divinity. He ALLOWs satan to imitate Him in order to test us :
Narrated Abu Rayhana, the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, said: “Verily Satan puts his throne on ocean and sets veils around himself. This way he imitates Allah, the Almighty. He then sends detachments …” (Ibn Asaakir’s Tarikh Damishq 23/201)
and let me tell you the lesson from the second hadith you quoted is that separation of husband and wife is very pleasurable to satan- which we must avoid. Not “Allah & Satan shares the same throne” .
………………………………………………….
Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; then He said to him, “Be,” and he was. [3:59]
I agree with you bro!!!,you are a 100% right!!!!
Mr Christ follower, Please tell abdul kalaam that i disagree with his pathetic story of
”la ilaha illaAllah”.Abdul kalam I disagree with you, go to sleep.
Abdul kalam, Why thou persecuted apostle paul and condemn his teachings? Read acts 9:1-19 carefully.Compare that of Lucifer who appeared as gabriel to muhammed and that of JESUS to great apostle paul,there’s a big difference there.This
time, Jesus christ the lord, the mighty GOD himself sent a voice from heaven through the power of the HOLY SPIRIT,because the holy spirit is a host of all the voices that comes from the
‘Throne of Grace’ for he’s the ”lord of host”,that was where paul’s name was called, written and ordained in zion as a GREAT APOSTLE, the beautiful city of GOD in heaven and was
chosen as an instrument of GOD our father to carry the name of JESUS to the gentiles,kings and sons of Israel.And much more paul recieved his sight from ananais,oh! what a lovely story,what a loving JESUS we have.Paul who has done so many evil,blasphemed against the church of GOD,commited terrible sins in the past is now an apostle of CHRIST AND GOD OUR FATHER?!!! that’s a big blow dude!!!
Let’s take a look on these words.
1 John 4: 1 – 3
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
You see the point there? “Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God”.
Muhammad denied that Jesus is the Son of God. So, Muhammad is not of God. Yet he said that the Holy Bible is corrupted as a cover up.
Yo, that’s what’s up trullfuhty.
TRINITY is not GOD.. I agreeee to that! we worship only one god w/c has 3 trinity . why muslims are so hard headed? omg dont confuse yourselves! 🙂
we believe in one God and that’s the what Jesus taught his companions and the same all prophets of God preach the unity not trinity of God . the word trinity is Christiansmade not the word of Jesus
Unpacking the doctrine
The idea that there is One God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit means:
• There is exactly one God
• The Father is God
• The Son is God
• The Holy Spirit is God
• The Father is not the Son
• The Son is not the Holy Spirit
• The Father is not the Holy Spirit
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS HOW DOES IT GOES?
The mystery of the Trinity: (1+1+1=1) = Nonsense!
This idea that three persons add up to one individual seems like nonsense. And logically, it is.
So Christians don’t try to understand the doctrine of the Trinity logically or as a problem of arithmetic.
Unfortunately most other attempts to explain the Trinity don’t really capture the concept either, or are very difficult to understand.
The 99 names represent all of his qualities
brother read mark 10:18. if Jesus (AS) is God himself he wouldn’t have denied the fact he is God. but when he was called “good teacher” what shall I do to attain eternal life. he said why do u call me “good” no one is good except “God”. brother would u deny yourself your own name if you are called upon for a scholarship and other presents. NO. you’ll rush to receive it. so because he knows he’s not God and there is God above that’s why made that statement. Now there is no equilocal statement in the entire Bible did Jesus say. “I’m God” or “worship me”. search through the bible leaf by leaf, page by page and you’ll not find it. brother there’s one true Allah that we should worship. that’s why Jesus said the One who sent me is greater than I. Allah is the greatest. Lord of Adam,Abraham,Isaac, Joshua, Ismail,Moses, Aaron, Josef, Jesus, Mohammad, and the Lord of the worlds. I love u brother and u can contact me on 0249663488 for more discussion. thank you Allah bless you and your family.
okay we agree that trinity doesnt means three God but give me answer then y u say then Jesus is also GOD(Nauzobillah) and if jesus is god then y u say jesus is son of god(nauzobillah)
God is one and alone, if there will more then one God so the earth will vanished cause one will say sun will rise from east so one wants no sun sets from east and rise from west and etc there are lots of thing there that shows us no there is Only one God(Allah) who is the creater thats it
you can do researchs, read history,facts and evidence and much more then will find Its Islam which is right,real and true religion
history and facts don’t always support Islam
Can you find a “WORD” Trinity in a Bible?
The Trinity was created by the apostate Church under Constantine when he wanted to bring all Christian Church under he authority.
If you want to know the truth about God the Father, Jesus His Son and the Father’s Spirit, the Holy Spirit I suggest you go to Unleavened Bread Ministries web site and look for the audio teaching called Oneness, Trinity or Truth.
This will clear up any misunderstanding you have on what truth is concerning God in Christianity. The Trinity is not true doctrinally. Nor can it be proven in the scriptures if you are seriously examining the scriptures. All the way in the Bible God is called the Father. God the Father did everything through Jesus, including creating the universe, adam, eve, angels and even satan.
Why believe a teaching that isn’t biblical? TRINITY
This, in brief, is the amazing story of how the doctrine of the Trinity came to be introduced—and how those who refused to accept it came to be branded as heretics or unbelievers.
But should we really base our view of God on a doctrine that isn’t spelled out in the Bible, that wasn’t formalized until three centuries after the time of Jesus Christ and the apostles, that was debated and argued for decades (not to mention for centuries since), that was imposed by religious councils presided over by novices or nonbelievers and that was “decided by the method of trial and error”?
Of course not. We should instead look to the Word of God—not to ideas of men—to see how our Creator reveals Himself!
Faisal M. Diron, I agree on what you are saying about the doctrine of the Trinity. Most Christian churches teach the doctrine of the trinity and most Christians just believe it because that is what they are taught from birth. These false apostate teachers also teach that if someone says the Trinity is not the truth that they are automatically assume that this is a Anti-Christ and that person is to be avoided. So if you try to show these Christians proof in the scriptures that the Trinity doctrine is not true you go up against a “spirit of error”, a religious spirit, a demon that prevents many in Christianity from being able to believe what they are being shown, even if you use the scriptures when doing it. They will not believe you. Many are called few are chosen to know this truth.
HOWEVER, God is merciful, he doesn’t place the Gospel of Salvation on believing if the doctrine of the Trinity is true or not. He only places the Gospel on one thing, do you believe Jesus is the Son of God and that he died on the cross for your sins and mine. Jesus being the ultimate and only holy sacrifice the Father God accepted for our sins that redeemed us from our fallen, sinful, corrupt state and gave us Christs life in exchange for ours at the cross. Jesus died on the cross for our sins so we can live for God in Jesus’s righteousness. Jesus blood sacrifice on the cross paid the price for our sins so we can live to God. If we believe this, we are born again into the Kingdom of God, and given Christs life in exchange for ours. So it is no longer i that live, but Christ in me. So, now I give my life to God and I take up my cross and deny my flesh ( lusts of the flesh so I can have newness of life in Christ Jesus.
what is this phylosophie mister trinity , The word Trinity doesn’t exist in your bible at all
Hi
I won’t call you Jesus. It is plainly obvious that you have no idea as to what the Trinity is all about spending so time trying to be smart thinking the Christians are wrong.
I have a question for you…who raised Jesus from the dead?
This is what the bible says.
1. The Father
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
2. The Son
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
3. The Holy Spirit.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
This is not a twisting of scripture this is what the bible says…why does it not just God?
Gen 1:26 📝 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
This is not a plural of majesty this is the Father Son and the Holy Ghost. It was Jesus that brought this revelation to man having perfect knowledge of heaven because that is where he came from.
He is not half man – half God.
It is not God becoming a human being.
It is not the flesh becoming divine.
The incarnation ( John 1:14) is 100% God 100% man this is what it means.
But, sir. I too have now a question for you. How can God, be it his body, spirit or mind i.e. any part of him or his trinity or three body parts, etc – how can part of that trinity die! – ? In Fact, how can part of that trinity i.e. ‘the flesh’ be born like everyone else, so God can just separate his 3 parts when he likes and why would God need 3 parts anyway – his God – he shouldn’t even need one part – and so by worshiping a trinity or any part of that trinity be it flesh or spirit or father, you are indeed actually respecting 3 deity’s instead of 1. Who gave Jesus permission to be born? His father? Our father? –
Jesus brought us the message of GOD and if he was God, in any way be it a third or his ‘Flesh’, how could he possibly die. Jesus/God/ Part of the trinity of God/Gods Flesh, etc is so almighty to raise temples yet cannot escape death? Besides, if Jesus was God, who was he praying to? Himself?.
layla,layla,layla!!!!!
GOD the father is an ‘INVISIBLE SPIRIT’,he chose to exist in his son JESUS get this at the back of your coconut please.Infact the ‘HOLY SPIRIT’ should rebuke you at 99% for asking an uneccessary question.seek him everyday and he will find your heart,he will guide you to see the revelation behind the ‘FATHER’.
sir, there is a serious drawback in coconut model of God – that is the ignorance of a major component ie water. Counting water, it makes four. So this model fails 🙂
sorry, i’m kidding.
well, Can you please tell us why do you give more prefernces to the words of authors of bibles like John 1:1 – “word was with God and the word was God” , to Jesus’ own words like John 20:21- “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”, Mark 12:29 – “The Lord our God, the Lord is one” ?
Christ Jesus our lord and our mighty GOD,the Messiah(mighty redeemer) saw no wrong to equal himself with GOD the father, (not allah!!!), because the Father chose to fellowship or exist in the son, that is why we the new born of GOD our father in christ refer to jesus as one MIGHTY GOD simple and short.Your question is RHETORICAL!!!..
“we the new born of GOD” .. What do you mean by this birth? If you define this birth, maybe we can define what is a Son in context of God?
and full verse of Mark 12:29 that I stated earlier is this:
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.” . Read it again, please.
If you read correctly, Jesus equates himself with the common people, not The God. And then calls Him as their Lord. It means that The Father is the Lord of Jesus, which is simple and short but you do not understand!
Jesus denied that He is not GOD.
The Bible says that Jesus denied he is God
Jesus spoke to a man who had called him ‘good,’ asking him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.’ (Luke 18:19)
And he said to him, ‘Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.’ (Matthew 19:17)
Abraham rejoiced in the day he saw Jesus and was glad. Jesus, the I am, the first born (of God, the Father), of who ALL creation was made, by him and through him all was created and has existence for his kingdom of love
John 8:58
56 Your :father Abraham rejoiced to see :my :day; and he saw and was glad.
57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Amen, Amen, I say unto you, Before Abraham became, I am.
59 They took up stones therefore to cast at him: but Jesus was hidden, and went out of the temple.
Gen 18:1 Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.
Gen 18:2 And when he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the earth,
Gen 18:3 and said, “My LORD, if now I have found favor in your sight, please do not pass your servant by.
Gen 18:4 “Please let a little water be brought and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree;
Gen 18:5 and I will bring a piece of bread, that you may refresh yourselves; after that you may go on, since you have visited your servant.” And they said, “So do, as you have said.”
Gen 18:6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah, and said, “Quickly, prepare three measures of fine flour, knead it, and make bread cakes.”
Gen 18:7 Abraham also ran to the herd, and took a tender and choice calf, and gave it to the servant; and he hurried to prepare it.
Gen 18:8 And he took curds and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and placed it before them; and he was standing by them under the tree as they ate.
Colossians 1
3 We thank :God the Father of our LORD Jesus Christ always praying for you,
4 having heard of your :faith in Christ Jesus, and the love which ye have toward all the saints,
12 giving thanks to the Father, who fitted you to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in :light;
13 who delivered us out of the power of :darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his :love;
14 in whom we have the redemption, the forgiveness of :sins:
15 who is the invisible God’s image, firstborn of all creation;
16 for in him were :all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; :all things have been created through him, and unto him;
17 and HE is before all, and in him :all things consist.
18 And HE is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, firstborn from the dead; that in all HE might have pre-eminence.
19 For the whole fullness was pleased to dwell in him;
20 and through him to reconcile :all things unto him, having made peace through the blood of his :cross: through him, whether the things upon the earth, or those in the heavens.
Trinity doctrine decided by trial and error
This unusual chain of events is why theology professors Anthony and Richard Hanson would summarize the story in their book Reasonable Belief: A Survey of the Christian Faith by noting that the adoption of the Trinity doctrine came as a result of “a process of theological exploration which lasted at least three hundred years . . . In fact it was a process of trial and error (almost of hit and miss), in which the error was by no means all confined to the unorthodox . . . It would be foolish to represent the doctrine of the Holy Trinity as having been achieved by any other way” (1980, p. 172).
They then conclude: “This was a long, confused, process whereby different schools of thought in the Church worked out for themselves, and then tried to impose on others, their answer to the question, ‘How divine is Jesus Christ?’ . . . If ever there was a controversy decided by the method of trial and error, it was this one” (p. 175).
Anglican churchman and Oxford University lecturer K.E. Kirk revealingly writes of the adoption of the doctrine of the Trinity: “The theological and philosophical vindication of the divinity of the Spirit begins in the fourth century; we naturally turn to the writers of that period to discover what grounds they have for their belief. To our surprise, we are forced to admit that they have none . . .
“This failure of Christian theology . . . to produce logical justification of the cardinal point in its trinitarian doctrine is of the greatest possible significance. We are forced, even before turning to the question of the vindication of the doctrine by experience, to ask ourselves whether theology or philosophy has ever produced any reasons why its belief should be Trinitarian” (“The Evolution of the Doctrine of the Trinity,” published in Essays on the Trinity and the Incarnation, A.E.J. Rawlinson, editor, 1928, pp. 221-222).
Why can’t you understand “Trinity”. Three in one. Let me simplyfit it to you with my limited english. Fire can provide heat, light, and you can get burned if you touch it. One can’t exist without the other. Moslems can’t understand this in my life. Please start understanding Trinity .. Trinity .. Trinity (i.e. three in one)
thank u magdi. some peoples think that it is the inability of God to be three at the same time one.
I want you to understand that He God says: i don’t have a wife,son and friends,so what is the relationship between God mery and jesus?
Excellent !
how i wish you will understand. Brother please note that this is not a competition of islam and christianity. this is a very serious matter. let your analysis come from within your heart and trust me God will make you understand Him and his redemption story of Jesus Christ.
I BELIEVE YOU HAVE iSAIAH 9:6 in your quoran please analyse it carefully. May the God give you the Grace to understand and also the revelation from our Lord and Master Jesus Christ.
a serious matter … of course…
Why can’t you both crucify your corrupted minds unto christ?,I say to you, neither of you is circumcised in the spirit.Even if an old woman does the will of GOD our father,She is a mother in CHRIST,again he who does the will of GOD in christ is his brother,sister,son or friend.
I understand the trinity thing, its a bit like us humans have a body, a soul, and spirit/mind. Although, this in itself is of pagan origin, and so is the whole Sabbath day/church on a Sunday thing. Although, I have not checked this out properly, so I could well be very wrong.
Only issue I have is I don’t understand how Jesus can be God and yet as almighty as he is, still pray to God (himself in this case), and also not escape death on the cross. Surely if Jesus was God or part of God, he would be so convincing and deeply irresistible to the whole of mankind there would be no unbelievers. Also, another important fact. Jesus was a man.
I believe that your confused about how Jesus is able to pray to the Father when He himself is God..meaning to say that God is Only the father and Jesus is just a servant of God.God is a relational being .He choose to identify himself with man..or in other words choose man to identify with himself.God is showing us something very unique..That He exists in three persons and they are always communicating with each other..tightly knit just like our beings.you are not just a body but you also have a spirit and most importantly a soul.But these together ultimately form you.Jesus communicates with the father because He is showing us that He has the access to the throne of heaven where the Father is seated..that’s why we pray in Jesus name.
About the second question Jesus did not have to escape death ..He choose to willingly die for us.die not just physically..His death on the cross was the Only moment in eternity when God the father turned His face away..when for a moment in eternity their relationship was broken forever..so that we could become united with the Father and be adopted as His children .
“the father turned His face away so that we could become united with the Father and be
adopted as His children ” … you are making the confusion more confusing. Well read acts 2:22-
“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.”.
Thats exactly what we believe: a man accredited by God. So Jesus is never a God.
Acts 2:24 might confuse you. : “But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.” .
Actually Jesus knew this will happen and says it here:
Mat 10:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
If Jesus was dead, so was Jonah; if Jesus was God because of rising from dead, so does Jonah. In fact, neither statement is true.
………………………………………………………………………………
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!
Mia is perfectly RIGHT!!!!,she’s not bringing any cofusion here.what she’s trying to say is this.GOD the father began a family with abraham called ‘the abrahamic covenant’.By then every child that was born became a descendant of abraham through circumcision in the flesh.
This means that abraham bethrothed all his descendants in this kind of adoption to GOD seeing us as his children,but they were still not redeemed.They obeyed the law of moses in order to continue their relationship with GOD because of the covenant. But a new covenant is built in CHRIST THE HIGH PRIEST whom king david prophesied as the ”ARK OF THE NEW COVENANT.”
His body was then crucified on the cross to put an END to circumcision of the old law written by Moses.Circumcision as i said was a kind of adpotion that was used to bethroth someone to something, It came as a result of the law that will continue to bind the Israelites to GOD.Therefore sin and all manner of curses was belayed upon on JESUS on the cross and so GOD the father could no longer behold him as his eminence or glory that is why he turned his face away from JESUS his SON.When he died he spent three days in the heart of the earth” meaning he was in HELL and HADES to redeem all the souls” setting the captives free which is why he said he’s both the begotten of the dead and the living.
GOD the father then raised him from the dead bringing a new life to us all.Because of Sin,the Spirit of Grace,the Spirit of love,the Spirit of righteousness, the Spirit of manifestation and Spirit of reconcilatoin were all hidden in GOD our father but CHRIST JESUS our LORD who’s rich in mercy has revealed and unveiled these gifts for us all to start a new family with the Almighty Father in Christ.
Oh! you muslims, are you justified by the works of the law or by faith in Christ? Let this be in you that he who sows to the LAW OF SIN reaps at the STING OF DEATH and the power of sin is the works of the law.You muslims obey the works of the law and have become rebellious against the new law in CHRIST JESUS.
Abdul kalaam, the will of God is to obey the new law in CHRIST which he summed as LOVING THY NEIGHBOUR AS THY SELF that makes a person inherit the
kingdom of GOD in the heart.
whose theory is this , sir? Jesus didnot say like that . Can you remember – Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.” ?
“he who sows to the LAW OF SIN reaps at the STING OF DEATH” – so let it be written, so let it be done 🙂
…………………………..
Quran 3:61. And if anyone disputes with you about him, after the knowledge that has come to you, say, “Come, let us call our children and your children, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves, and let us invoke God’s curse on the liars.”
Please don’t think you are winning your case. you are rather destroying yourself.
NOTHING GOOD COMES OUT OF SATAN. no matter how hard he tries to imitate God, he fails. There is nothing that proves Muhammed is a prophet of God. A prophet of God who can even take a 9 year old as a bride even baffles me. i KNOW ARGUMENTS CAN NEVER WIN YOUR HEART TO GOD BUT ONLY THROUGH THE LOVE AND GRACE OF GOD. I
i promise you BROTHER, i will pray for you to receive the Grace of God. I believe God will speak to you. You will finally believe Jesus is our Lord and Savior prophesied.
Amen………
Layla, trust me you have no problem at all. Do you know that God depends on His own WORD. God is His WORD and His WORD IS God. Remember that what ever you find in the new testament of Christ is a fulfillment of the Prophecies in the old testament and a lot of it can even be found in the quoran. please loosen your heart a little and you would realize God will minister to you aand make you understand. This is about eternity my dear, please take it serious. Take advantage of God’s love and be saved. I love you
John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
Is this what you call trinity? Father ( Not biological parent ) SENT Jesus and Jesus knows it.
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”
“MY GOD AND YOUR GOD” – point to be noted!!
“Three in one” ? No all in one! see John 17:
22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that YOU HAVE SENT ME, and have loved them AS You have loved Me.
So remember, never say “three” .
“but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”. – Mark 3:29
so be careful, otherwise you will unknowingly commit an eternal sin by calling Holy Spirit a (part of) God.
Abdul Kalam, we thank God that you are at least believing the Bible. Trust me i will not win your soul to argument but rather will WIN your soul by PRAYERS to the Most High God through Our Lord and Master Jesus.
You will very soon testify that Jesus is God. I know there is something in you that want to believe in Jesus as the Saviour but since you were born into the TEACHINGS OF QURAN, your heart is struggling. I pray that you are released from this mighty deception of the Devil. MUHAMMED IS NOT OF GOD, BROTHER
The Bible says that Jesus denied he is God
Jesus spoke to a man who had called him ‘good,’ asking him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.’ (Luke 18:19)
hello so u mean there are three God making trinity this simply means that u have added another God to the creator ,when u do dis is it good? why have you forgotten the first commandment is talking about the oneliness of God this means that u can’t go to the heaven
@ Jesus
The answer is in my HOLY BIBLE
Book of John chapter 1; Verse 1 – 3 and Book of John Chapter 1, Verse 18 ; Book of John chapter 1, Verses 1 – 18;
Book of John chapter 3 verse 16 – 17
Book of Genesis chapter 1, verse 1
Even the Disciples did not believed that Jesus is GOD.
Disciples did not believe Jesus was God
The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus was raised to heaven. Throughout this period, they never referred to Jesus as God. For instance Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed a crowd saying:
‘Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.’ (Acts 2:22)
For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God (Confirmed In Matthew 12:18)
‘The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.’ (Acts 3:13)
‘God raised up his servant’ (Acts 3:26)
Who said Jesus was not God, a Muslim. You have no understanding of the scriptures in the Bible, you should not try to teach from them, seriously. It will be bad for your health.
You missed this scripture Faisal, John20:28 And Thomas said in answer, My Lord and my God!
The disciples were all gathered together when Thomas called Jesus his Lord and his God.
What you fail to understand is, God the Father had a Son, Jesus and Jesus is God’s only Son. If your Father is God, and you created (born) in everything way like your Father who is God, you are also God, if you were the first is ALL creation to be brought forth out from God (birth), then this will make Jesus to be just like God his Father in every way. It was Gods will to do this. Jesus is also God. However, even Jesus called His Father His God.
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, Do not put your hand on me, for I have not gone up to the Father: but go to my brothers and say to them, I go up to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
John 20:25 So the other disciples said to him, We have seen the Lord. But he said to them, If I do not see in his hands the print of the nails and put my finger into the print of the nails, and if I do not put my hand into his side, I will never have belief.
John 20:26 And after eight days, his disciples were again in the house and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were shut, Jesus came, and taking his place in the middle of them, he said, May peace be with you!
John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, Put out your finger, and see my hands; and put your hand here into my side: and be no longer in doubt but have belief.
John 20:28 And Thomas said in answer, My Lord and my God!
John 20:29 Jesus said to him, Because you have seen me you have belief: a blessing will be on those who have belief though they have not seen me!
Jesus did not teach people that he was God
If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.
The Bible says that God is greater than Jesus
‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)
‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)
Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.
Thomas a Apostle and disciple of Jesus called Jesus his “Lord and their God” and Jesus did not correct them when they said it publicly.
Jesus did not dispute or deny this in the scriptures when Thomas called him his Lord and God.
“John 20:28 And Thomas said in answer, My Lord and my God!”
This is what is written in the Bible. You can deny it all you want but it is there.
Thomas was talking directly at Jesus when he said My Lord and my God. The other disciples were all present when he called Jesus his God. Thomas was not calling the Father God iat this time, he called Jesus God, it is written this way exactly n this Bible. Thomas called Jesus God.
Quit denying this Faisal M. Diron. This is what the bible says. You do not have to believe it, but it is there and you can not twist scripture and deny any more just because you want to prove something else, tell us about ANOTHER Jesus that did not exist. Another Jesus that is not the true Jesus of the Bible. Because it is written, it is true.
Yes we cannot twist the scripture and what is written is written…
The Bible says that God is greater than Jesus
‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)
‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)
Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.
We should not contradict the verses with another verses.
Each species will procreate it’s own kind.
A dog will procreate a dog
A horse will procreate a horse
A cow procreates a cow.
A man (with a woman) procreates a Man.
If God procreates a Son (born from above) what will he procreate, God.
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Psa 45:7 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness: Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David, The LORD saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way, For his wrath will soon be kindled. Blessed are all they that take refuge in him.
1 John 2
18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have many antichrists arisen: whereby we know that it is the last hour.
22 Who is the liar but who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even who denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, hath not the Father either; who confesseth the Son hath the Father also.
Faisal,
You do not believe in the Son of God because you are a Anti-Christ. Anyone who says Jesus is not God, as Ps 45:7 says, Pa 110:1 calls him Lord, and Ps 2:12 says to honor him unless he become angry, is a anti-dhrist. Jesus is the Christ is the Messiah of God, he is the Son of God. Anyone who says he is not is a Anti-Christ. You are a anti-christ. You deny the Son, so you are also denying the Father who made his Son the Messiah, the Christ. You are a anti-christ.
Who are “Anti-Christ”
Did you pray how Jesus Pray?
Physical Prayer is commanded:
The Prophets of God prayed with their forehead touching the ground. Likewise, the Muslims also pray in this manner:
And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, (Genesis 17:3)
And I bowed down my head, and worshipped the LORD, and blessed the LORD God of my master Abraham, which had led me in the right way to take my master’s brother’s daughter unto his son. (Genesis 24:48)
And he said, Nay; but [as] captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? (Joshua 5:14)
And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: (Daniel 9:3)
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt]. (Matthew 26:39)
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Paul rejected these laws; he disobeyed the physical prayer to GOD. He distorted the prayer and directed it towards His Prophet, Jesus!
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; (Philemon 2:10)
This verse is absolutely outrageous and repulsive, totally disgusting! The Old Testament teaches that Prayer is due to God alone:
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (Isaiah 45:23)
It seems that Christians have abandoned this verse, following the teaching of Paul by worshipping Jesus!
WHY PAUL REJECT THESE LAWS, DISOBEYED PHYSICAL PRAYER? THEREFORE PAUL IS ANTI-CHRIST.
Jesus Forbade the Gentiles:
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 10:5-6)
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 15:24)
Paul rejected this command of NOT preaching to the Gentiles, they were restricted. Paul openly preached among the Gentiles, a totally different religion:
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (Romans 11:13)
WHY ALWAYS PAUL CONTRADICT THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS?
Where is the Original Teachings of Jesus?
Where is Christ in Christianity?
Reply to Abraham Erick, Hi Abraham. Well to start with I’m a Christian. I’m not a Jew and I’m not a Muslim. Christians were redeemed from the curse of the law, Christ having become the curse for us. So how some one prays really isn’t a issue in Christianity because it is a matter of choice really. Some can stay prostrate if they choose to, others can go to their knees, you can sit or even stand. You can even lie in bed and pray, our God is a loving Father and our Savior is awesome. Our Lord never mentioned as never did any of the Apostles that we had to put our bodies in any particular position for our prayers to be acceptable. If anyone were to say we had to pray bu the methods you mentioned then it becomes legalism for a Christian and we are no longer under grace that God gave us in the Gospel of Jesus Christ; we are then under self works trying to please God with our own self-righteousness, and that is a stench in our God’s nostrils. Now you may feel self-righteous doing these things but for a Christian it would remove us from Grace of God should we deviate from grace and try to appease God by our our self works. If we were to start practicing a “religion” with “legalism” and self works to show ourselves worthy by a “sanctioned” and “approved”method to pray to God, we would no longer be acceptable to God. Then …..Christianity would become just another man made religion trying to secure approval from God by self works rather then living by faith and believing in the gospel. When you repent, and believe the Gospel and become a Christian you are no longer under these type of laws to earn Gods approval, you get to have God the Fathers Spirit dwell in you and you become a son of God like Jesus, and are led by Gods Spirit. A completely different relationship then ANY other religion. I should know, I received this baptism of the Holy Spirit just like Jesus and the apostle Paul and Peter and all the other Christians you read about in the book of Acts. It is really quite a wonderful and awesome privilege to be a son of God with the God’s Holy Spirit dwelling inside me.
You would have to differentiate between the human and the divine nature of Jesus. You can’t say that his human nature participated in the act of creation because it didn’t exist before the incarnation. Also it is not possible for human nature to create. Therefore if a Christian says that Jesus created man he is speaking about the Logos or Word incarnated performing the work of creation. So the answer to the question “did Jesus create man” is yes and no.
If it is true as the dear pastor said in 2:01 that the “death” of Jesus is part of God’s plan for salvation then why is the supposedly man-god Jesus seems reluctant to die?
He obviously feared death so greatly that his sweat was like drops of blood and believed that *God* would intervene to save him from crucifixion.
Something does seem right.
What make it so bizzare to me is the fact that in the Gospels and letters of Paul, the Jews are blamed to be responsible for Jesus’ death.
In his earliest letter, Paul writes:
“…even as they have of the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men, forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always; for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost!” (I Thess 2:14-16)
Paul or whoever wrote the letter must be thankful to the Jews for taking role in God’s plan of saving humanity not to blame and curse them as “Christ-killers”
The following is an interesting conversation between God and Jesus in the heaven.
And Lo God said, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men ‘Worship me and my mother as deities beside God?’
Jesus answered: “ Limitless are You in Thy glory! It would not have been possible for me to say what I had no right to say! Had I said this You would have indeed known it! You know all that is within myself, where as I know not what is in Thyself. Verily it is
You alone who who fully know all the things that are beyond the reach of a created being’s perception. Nothing did I tell them beyond what You did bid me, ( to say) ‘ Worship God who is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer’.
And I bore witness to what they did as long as I dwelt in their midst; but since when You took me, You alone has been their keeper for you are witness to everything. If you cause them to suffer: verily they are Your servants; and if You forgive them verily You alone are Almighty, truly wise.”
The above conversation has been there in the Holy Quran for 1430 years without even an alphabet having been changed ( Chapter 5: Verses 116,117,118) proclaiming the fact that God is God and Jesus is a mighty apostle, a messenger, a messiah. It is up to the Christian adherents to accept it or reject it.
Hi Mohamed
Quoting Sura 5:116-118 does not help the cause of Islam it has nothing to do with the Trinity and why ask a stupid question because true Christians don’t and never believed that.
It may be true for the false Roman Catholic Church but not for the biblical Christians,so to appeal to that text does not make any difference to us.
None of the disciples of Jesus believed neither did any of the church leaders in 1st century Christianity, where is your proof and sources that the REAL Christians believed that?
Islam is a very strange religon. There are tones of moslems have converted to christianity but they fear for their life to declair their conversion puplicly.
if u have some one converting from moslem to christian means that person had actually no connection with islam any time . A true beliver will never convert from moslem to any other religion.So dnt criticise Islam due to that partiuclar individual because if he knew islam he wont convert to any other religion.
only a girl is getting married to a Christian guy then only she converts.Neither a girl or boy convert themselves, with a belief that Jesus is GOD.I am Muslim and married to a christian guy but i didn’t converted myself because i don’t believe in Jesus
Assalamu’alaikum Sister:)
I just felt that it was my duty towards my muslim sister to tell you that i read a blog that the Sheikh Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari wrote that :
In surah al-Baqarah, 221 .Do not marry unbelieving women until they believe. A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though if she attracts you. And not marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe. A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though if he attracts you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the fire but Allah beckons by His grace to the garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His signs clear to mankind; that they may receive admonition.
Sheikh Muhammad also wrote: The fear that a Muslim man or woman may well be affected with his/her partner’s religion, thus go on to a path that leads to the fire of hell, is the main cause for this prohibition. Hence, a Muslim woman will not be allowed whatsoever to marry anyone besides a Muslim man, and even if she did, the marriage will not be valid in Islam.
Here is the link: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2267&CATE=10
PS: I may be wrong and if I am i am truly sorry
Thank you for reading
Sincerely,
Jenna
And there are many Christians who convert to Islam as well, they don’t deny it though, making it more credible, I know stories of many told in the mosque I go to by themselves, or by their converters, others have become famous and appeared on TV. It proves nothing without knowing how deeply religious the people who converted were!! If they were deeply religious, it proves defect in their religions, if they weren’t, it proves defect within themselves.
100% true
1000% true even more true, ONLY THOSE WHO NEVER USE THEIR FACULTIES WOULD NEVER UNDERSTAND ISLAM – THE RELIGION OF ALL PROPHETS
Sura 4:169, 5: 77, 5: 116- Christian God as Allah, Jesus and Mary= of the sect of Collorydians. Nothing to do with the FAther ,, theSon and Holy Spirit as relational names according to plain Aristotle logic and the use of any language. See Mark 10:18 (and other Synoptics). Your Allah knows Good News only in oral version of some Matthew; nothing form other New Testament sources! From 325 C.E. (Chrsit Era) to 650 C.E there was enough time to learn on trynittarian ocntroversies between Athanssius and Arius. Wha ti sthe IQ of …Allah?
“if you cause them to suffer”- Really? There is not any causal relation between God as good and evil as privation of good – see Genessis 3 written 9th century B.C.(Before Christ). Is your Allah still asleep to leran it?
might i inqure to ask that if jesus is part god in a human body (meaning that the spirit of god (gods spirit) is inside human flesh) who created this body? The Father? The holy Spirit?
Jesus ? nay but one cannot create himself anymore than you can create a new eye or leg for yourself (out of flesh.) and if the father told the holy spirit to breath his spirit into jesus that would mean jesus was created by god.
And finally if the holy spirit followed this order and he is an equal part of god than why dosent he give the father ( or himself ) orders too? or why dosent he disobey? if he truly was god (or a part of god) he wounldnt need take orders because he would be all powerfull
btw early christians were not corrupted as they followed the word of god (the injeel( or gospel in english) wich was sent down with isa pbuh ( or jesus in english)
Every historical event narrated in the Quran has really happened, inlcuding Jesus.
God in the Quran says what means:
*{He (Jesus) said: “I am indeed a servant of God: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet. And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live.
It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, “Be”, and it is. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.}* (Maryam 19:30-36)
Its a fact that no one can/ cannot account for the New Testament being written in the first century if Jesus did not exist.
The only real doubt is regarding the existence of the historical Jesus, i.e the one who was crucified, killed, ressurected, the one who was God.
This is where the myths from ancient civilisations have interpolated christian teachings.
However most historians, even most critics accept that a man called Jesus existed. (Well Esau was his given name in hebrew, Isa in arabic – the greeks latinised it by adding the J and the S at the end hence you have Jesus)
From the blog: http://islamicresponse.blogspot.com/2009/12/did-jesus-exist.html
Well said but remember that in your Quran 17:93,Allah commanded Muhammad to declare his identity openly and declare clearly:
Quran 18:110
Say:I am but a man like yourselves.
John 16:14
” He shall glorify me””that is the conforter. Jesus goes on to say that the conforter is the Holy spirit.
So if Muhammad was the conforter as you Muslim believe then he would have glorify Jesus.Yet he deny Jesus of his sonship.Where in the Quran does Muhammad say he is Ruh-ul-Qudus.No wonder it says in the Quran that Muhammad should come to the people with the books.”Quran 10:94″and again Allah has made those who follow Jesus superior than those who disbelieve”Quran 3:55,61:44″
Furthermore,why does the Quran always start with pronoun”We”” for Allah.Example is in Quran 2:253.
Moreover,the Quran acknowledge that the Torah and Injeel are holy books still in Quran 3:55
If then,why does it contradict itself because in John 3:14, it was Jesus who predicted his own death not the disciples”Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert,so the son of man must be lifted up,that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.Read that again and analyze the points clearly.In John 17:1-5 Jesus prayed for Himself saying” Father,the time has come.Glorify your son,that your son may glorify you.Verse 5 says and now,Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.Take note of the verses carefully and understand something there.
SURAH. 112. 1. Say He is Allah, the one; 2 Allah, the eternal, absolute; 3 He begets not, nor is He begotten 4 and there is none like unto Him.
Then tell me why then do you think Jesus the son of mery is God.
The concept of God in Christianity will be that God is not all powerful because He had to sacrifice his Son in the most cruel fashion so that the sins of those believing in Him could be forgiven i.e He could not forgive without somebody paying for it… that is that He had to show that somebody has paid for the sin committed by his believers and also that God is not just because He makes somebody else pay for the sins of others when He is totally innocent.that means that He makes the innocent suffer.for no fault of his..
God is all powefrul, the sacrifice of his son was a prove of his love for us. God is a God of justice who show us exemples of how we out to be.
jeuses was not his son but his messenger . Quran chapter 9 verse 30
And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!
*messiah=christ
Quran chapter 9 verse 31
They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God – Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) . Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).”
Salaam Alaykum, ikhwaan.
This is kind of off topic but I have a question. What do our ‘ulema mean when they say that the Qur’an is uncreated?
salam . bro it means that it contains no words of man but it is only contains the words of the creator
If you are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down onto Our servant (Muhammad), then produce a chapter of the like thereof, and call your witnesses, supporters, who are apart from God, if you are truthful. (al-Baqarachapter 2 verse 23)
You (O Muhammad) was not a reader of any Scripture before it, nor did you write (such a Scripture) with your right hand, for then those who follow falsehood might (have a right) to doubt it. (al-Ankabut chapter 29 verse 48)
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
@SKhan
I think we Muslims should avoid this kind of discussion to rationalize the nature of the Quran. This is something not defined in the Quran and hadith. and we may get into a shirk, division and scandalized idea like whether Isa (AS) had been the incarnate Logos in Christianity.
I know this is part of al-Asma’ wa al-Sifat discussion,the theological positions of the Ahli sunnah wal jamaah (the tradition based on Imam Abu al-Hasan al-Ash`ari and Imam Abu Mansur al-Maturidi.) which is the massive majority of the Muslims, that the the uncreatedness of Speech of God the Most High i.e. the Quran is that it was the eternal and uncreated speech of God but that the ink, paper and the Arabic words of the sacred text were created.
How ? we just dont ask how because like the creation of Adam (AS) and the conception of Isa (AS) in Maryam (AS) womb , it was كُن فَيَكُونُ “Be!” and it is!
Allah says, “Verily, His Command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, ‘Be!’ and it is!” Q 36:82
Allah says, “Verily! Our Word unto a thing when We intend it, is only that We say unto it: “Be!” and it is.” – Q 16:40
So it is part of the aqeedah of ahli sunnah wal jamah that they never and do not encourage muslims to discuss and rationalize this concept like any human idea.
Wallahu ‘alim
Man have a life and believe in Jessus King of Kings and Loard of loards. Start by understanding trinity first.
Read the ten commandments(your core believe) its first point is
You shall have no other gods before me. (means believe in one god)
Quran says like this in chapter 112
Say (O Muhammad ()): “He is Allah, (the) One.”Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).”He begets not, nor was He begotten; “And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.”
conclusion :- Quran chapter 3 verse 64
Say (O Muhammad(saww) ): “O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah. Then, if they turn away, say: “Bear witness that we are Muslims.”
Read the ten commandments(your core believe) its first point is
You shall have no other gods before me. (means believe in one god)
Quran says like this in chapter 112
Say (O Muhammad ()): “He is Allah, (the) One.”Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).”He begets not, nor was He begotten; “And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.”
Quran chapter 5 verse 17
Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary) . Say (O Muhammad ): “Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), his mother, and all those who are on the earth together?” And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.
conclusion :- Quran chapter 3 verse 64
Say (O Muhammad(saww) ): “O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah. Then, if they turn away, say: “Bear witness that we are Muslims.”
New American Standard Bible
But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Remember the word “ONLY”. Who sent him to Israel?
Why believe a teaching that isn’t biblical?
This, in brief, is the amazing story of how the doctrine of the Trinity came to be introduced—and how those who refused to accept it came to be branded as heretics or unbelievers.
But should we really base our view of God on a doctrine that isn’t spelled out in the Bible, that wasn’t formalized until three centuries after the time of Jesus Christ and the apostles, that was debated and argued for decades (not to mention for centuries since), that was imposed by religious councils presided over by novices or nonbelievers and that was “decided by the method of trial and error”?
Of course not. We should instead look to the Word of God—not to ideas of men—to see how our Creator reveals Himself!
The pastor refer to God having a son for which he cote Psalms 2 v 7 this is in relation to David not Jesus so Jesus did not said i am the Son of God.Jesus is been refereed to as the son of man 33 times in the new testament and as the pastor rightly Jesus never said he is God
Hi Bilal
Sadly you and the pastor are wrong because you are looking for the word ‘God’ before you believe, but we have to look at the scriptures and understand is really being said.
Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
Joh 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
Joh 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
What is the word and meaning for worship in this verse?
proskuneo…used in giving worship to God.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
When the High Priest questioned Jesus what did he ask?
Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
The Messiah is the same as saying the Son of God which is really funny because the koran says that Jesus is the messiah.
Jesus revealed himself as more than a prophet which is why people worshipped him.
Read the ten commandments(your core believe) its first point is
You shall have no other gods before me. (means believe in one god)
Quran says like this in chapter 112
Say (O Muhammad ()): “He is Allah, (the) One.”Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).”He begets not, nor was He begotten; “And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.”
Quran Chapter 5 verse 17
Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary) . Say (O Muhammad ): “Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), his mother, and all those who are on the earth together?” And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.
conclusion :- Quran chapter 3 verse 64
Say (O Muhammad(saww) ): “O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah. Then, if they turn away, say: “Bear witness that we are Muslims.”
Quran alone gives thes the solution! Excellent.
Quran Chapter 5 verse 75
The Messiah [‘Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam (Mary)] was a Siddiqah [i.e. she believed in the words of Allah and His Books (see Verse 66:12)]. They both used to eat food (as any other human being, while Allah does not eat). Look how We make the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to them, yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth).
The Bible says that God is greater than Jesus
‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)
‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)
Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.
Matthew 5:9
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons (or children in NRSV) of God.”
John 10:35-36
“If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken), do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?”
And I don’t think the term ‘Son of Man’ has ever been used to refer to God. In fact, Numbers 23:19 claimed the contrary
“God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfil it?”
Jesus repeatedly used the term ‘Son of man” to refer to himself, why should we take it to mean that he’s claiming to be God?
Old testament of God saying one of his names
Exodus 3:14 NKJV
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
Jesus in his own words :
John 8:58 NKJV
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Look hereJohn 8:59 NKJV
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Why would they want to stone him….I know for blasphemy. Making the claim he is god in the flesh just as the bible says.
John 20:27-28 NKJV
Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Isaiah 9:6 NKJV
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
We beleive in one god. You are being misled by people who are confusing you. Check this. In Islam your goal is jihad. And in the end to kill Christians and Jews right till everyone is converted to Islam. You say us Christians are guilty of shirk. But the bible says I John 4:3 NKJV and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. If you don’t confess God coming in the flesh or accept Christ as lord as savior your going to hell. Look at the fruits of both sides. You are called to jihad and cause terror to unbeleivers. And to rule the world. Christ calls us sinners to repentence and beleive he took all the sin of the world from the beginning of time even till the end and placed it upon himself. Like a father dieing in the place of his guilty children because he loves us that much. Think about that for a moment. God becoming a man and dieing for you. If that doesn’t change your heart and make you realize that sin isn’t worth hell then theres something wrong.
very nice …..
With due respect, you are misinformed. Muhammad (SAW) commanded all Muslims to be allies with Christians[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achtiname_of_Muhammad ] . But the problem is, not everybody knows about it. Let us spread it. And a true Jihad in its true meaning is defensive, not offensive.
above charter of Muhammad (SAW) states protection and alliance with you Christians because we acknowledge that you belong to Abrahamic religion. But we cannot be same with you because you deviated. The deviation is clear from the belief you hold about Jesus.
Jesus clearly said in Mark 12:29-
“The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.’ “.
read the verse again, where ‘They’ consist of Jesus and the rest of Israel. so “the Lord their God” means The Lord, who is One, is the God of Jesus too. But you consider Jesus himself as the God.
Isn’t this blasphemy? Don’t you put “The first of all the commandments” aside and give more preference to others? Ask yourself!
You said God is like a father dieing in the place of his guilty children. But in the case of Jesus being cruxified, why didn’t the Father died who die in the place of His son? Why was it the son who must die?
I am an atheis, but i have some questions for christian people.
1. If a baby die before Jesus salvation, where he/she will be in? Hell or heaven? If the answer is heaven, then why? The baby still carry the sins and doesn’t have any good deeds. Where is the justice of God.
2. What is your outlook for Romans that crucify Jesus? Hate them or praise them? If u hate them, then why? They helped men from the sin. How if there is no one crucifying Jesus. The men will bear eternal sin.
3. Will you believe the “Holy Bible” that has many correction and revaluation? Will you believe the words from men lives before you that change “The Holy Bible” ?
I have many Church going Christian friends, but none of them undetrstands the trinity. When talking of it, they just say they do not understand it.
In trying to understand “how Christians understand Trinity”, this has ben a good problem. I never challenge them, never “debate” them, but just want to sympathetically or rather empathetically understand it.
So many points of the arguments I find difficult to understand. For example, it is said that Jesus is 100% god and 100% man. Was it so 100% of the time Jesus lived on earth?
Jesus did neither claim to be God, nor he asked his disciples to worship him. Dont make shirk u christians.
Throughout my life, I have associated Jesus with only the religion of Christianity. I have grown up thinking that Jesus, in a sense, belonged to Christians. Similar to Brahmin for Hindus, Allah for Islam, and Buddha for Buddhism, I thought Jesus was simply a CHRISTIAN figure. When I was searching for movies to review for my religion project, I came across a documentary titled Muslim Jesus, produced by British TV network ITV. Seeing the word Jesus associated with Islam was surprising for me, and so I decided on watching this documentary.
To quickly convey the significance of Jesus in Islam, the documentary opened by mentioning how Jesus, or Isa as he is known in Islam, is mentioned 154 times in over 90 stories. In fact, being discussed in over 90 stories is more than the amount of times Prophet Mohammed is written about. Muslims believe that one of the core lessons Jesus represents is a life against excess. In the Qur’an, the Islamic holy book, Jesus is said to have three possessions; a robe, a comb, and cup for water.
The documentary Muslim Jesus explained three core similarities between the Jesus of Islam, and the Jesus of Christianity. The first of which was that both religions have Jesus as being born from the virgin Mary. Secondly, both believe Jesus had the ability to perform Miracles. Finally, there would be a second coming of the Messiah Jesus.
The most fundamental argument between Christians, and Muslims surrounding Jesus is his death. In Christianity, Jesus was betrayed by his supposed friend Judah, and crucified by the Romans. However, three days later he miraculously came back to life in a resurrection. Islam has a different story. Muslims believe that on route to the crucifixion cross, Judah’s appearance was changed to resemble Jesus’, and he was killed instead. Simultaneously, Jesus was carried to heaven by four angels. Other differences between the Muslim Jesus, and Christian Jesus is that Muslims believe Mary had no husband named Joseph to support her, while Christians believe she did. Secondly, Muslims believe Jesus’ first miracle occurred when he spoke as a day old baby, while Christians believe his first miracle occurred at the age of 30 (turning water into wine). Jesus’ death story, and these other two differences have been causes for conflict. The documentary described how some people debate these differences as a profession.
From early childhood, my mother has always stressed to me the following: “Everyday when you wake up, you have a decision to make. A decision to focus on the right things.” In my opinion, solely focusing on the differences between the two religions is wrong. Putting emphasis on the differences can only cause conflict. I ask the following to all Christian, and Muslim debaters: Would your Messiah have wanted conflict, and bloodshed over the specifics of his life story? Would he have wanted people to try, and lay claim on him, or would he have wanted people to focus their attention on spreading his teachings?
In summary, the documentary Muslim Jesus has been an eye opener for me. It showed core differences between two of the most populous groups in the world, but most of all taught a powerful life lesson. Focusing on the nittie gritties of Jesus’ life won’t change anything. However, being accepting, tolerant, and aware of other peoples’ belief is the right thing to do in order to achieve ever lasting peace.
Movie link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeR_fU1acjM
Where in the bible do dey ask them 2 go 2 church?
Hi all out there discussing and seeking the understanding of the Trinity of GOD. This is a simple thing, we humans think about the things in the the way that we can do and the human ability to do. Being in three forms(The GOD, The SON and the HOLY SPIRIT) seems impossible to us as we think how God can be the God, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But remember one thing He is God, the Mighty One who created the Earth and the Heaven. If He can create the Earth and the Heaven by His word, this is verily possible too.
And for those who ask. Did Jesus ever said He is GOD. The answer is YES he did it indeed. The below are just a very few words he spoke that claims He is the God the Father and there are more in the Bible.
John 10:33 – “I and the Father are one.” – The meaning here is I am God.
John 8:58 – “Before Abraham was, I AM” – Here Jesus says He is God in the exact same way when God answered Mosses when Mosses asked what do i tell the people if they ask who sent me, Then GOD answered Mosses “I AM who I AM” and asked him to tell the people that “I AM” sent you.
Is there any prophet who claimed as such.
And why do Jesus have a different way of coming in to this world. Why He is born in a very different way than others prophets have.
If He would have been just a prophet why His birth is so Devine from other Prophets.
This proves that Jesus the Almighty is the Living God, The Son of Man.
I agree with you regarding the first point. It is possible for God to do anything. But creating a miraculous man rather than sharing his divinity with two other individuals seems more Godly. So he said ‘ Be ‘ , and jesus came into being, without any father. This is like the birth of adam – without father or mother. And if Jesus is a god, then mary is a mightier god, because she gave birth to a god! <- point to ponder .
and the 'one' you talk about in john 10 means unity, not being the same as god . it is clear from this:
John 17:
22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
And I am also confused regarding what actually this "I AM " is! Sometimes it seems I AM is a grammatical syntax which follows Subject + Verb ( + Object) and sometimes ( in Exodus 3:14) it seems that "I AM " is a proper name. eg: My name is Abdul Kalam. His name is I AM.
exodus 3:14. God asked Moses to tell the Israelites : 'I AM has sent me to you'.
Whatever this I AM means, it in no way means Jesus is God. Because Jesus calls The Lord as his God:
Mark 12:29. “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one
Now I don’t understand why many Christians would quote this verse, specifically Trinitarians, because what does this verse prove? Trinitarians do not believe Jesus is the Father, so why do they quote it? Are they quoting it to try and show that Jesus is equal to the Father? Well that isn’t true, since the Gospel of John shows the opposite, in fact if we quote one verse back we read:
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
This is verse 29, it comes right before verse 30, and in verse 29 Jesus says the Father is greater than ALL, this obviously includes Jesus since he is not the Father. So therefore how the Christians try and assume that this verse shows equality between Jesus and the Father is beyond me, just a verse before it Jesus says the Father is greater than everyone!
In fact this is not the first time that Jesus says the Father is greater than him, he does it again later:
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I (John 14:28)
So here we once again have Jesus claiming the Father is greater than him, so how is Jesus equal to the Father when Jesus says the contrary? Now Christians have come up with a way of trying to explain this verse off, they say that Jesus was talking as a man here, that as a man the Father is greater than him, they try and say that the Father meant he is greater than Jesus in rank and authority and not in essence.
However so what did Jesus mean in John 10 when Jesus said the Father is greater than ALL? Jesus placed himself in the category of ALL people, so therefore the Christian response will not work for John 10:29. It must be said though that the Christian response does not work for John chapter 14:28 neither, because the Christian argues from silence and is arguing something they have yet to prove. Christians cannot prove that Jesus has 2 natures, they can never get a single quote from the lips of Jesus saying I am man and Divine, that I have 2 natures and I gave one up and took on the man nature, this is non-existent, so therefore the response is from silence provided with no proof or a solid basis.
1-The fact is the Bible shows that the Father is greater than Jesus in essence, the Father is all-knowing and Jesus is not.
2-The Father gives Jesus everything from miracle to doctrine.
3-Jesus begs the Father to save him, obviously showing that life and death is controlled by the Father and NOT Jesus.
For all these arguments the Christian will say as man Jesus is not all-knowing, as man Jesus receives things from the Father, however so I will kindly ask the Christian bring this proof from the words of Jesus, they shall never be able to do it, this doctrine is an invention and not something to be found from Jesus.
So therefore in conclusion, John 10:30 proves nothing in support of the divinity of Jesus, it does not show equality, since Jesus made it clear that the Father is greater than him, so therefore Jesus is not equal with the Father.
Can somebody investigate into whether the TRINITY IS 100% MONOTHEISM AND 100% TRITHEISM ?
Hi everyone,
This is little BOB
”LORD JESUS CHRIST” IS MORE THAN A PROPHET”
greetings to all who are in Christ the savior and the
LORD of all,
the ”KING of kINGS” and LORD OF LORDS, the
alpha and the omega ,the beginning and the end, the father of
love,king of love who’s rich and abundant in mercy and compassion,in
him is everlasting life,a life full of peace and joy with no
payment.O you foolish atheists,you call yourself lucifer,did you not
know that GOD the father is invinsible and is spirit, he offered
his own life as a sacrifice for the whole world through his son
JESUS as flesh for grace and truth to abound among us all. GOD the
father reconciled the world onto himself,through a precious
redeemer,one we all cannot afford to loose.I want to ask you ‘aetheist’ this
question to baffle you a little.If a child is born into sin and GOD
ask you to offer your own life for the baby, CAN YOU
REALLY DO THAT?.See how proud and wicked your heart
is.The great apostle PAUL who was chosen and ordained by
christ jesus said in Heb 9:25-28, christ who was righteous,who knew
no sin was made sin for the whole world. if a child is born into
this world of sin and dies all of a sudden, there’s no way GOD the father will send it to hell
or condemn it.
Because he offered his ‘OWN LIFE’ as a sacrifice
for the baby,did jesus not say he’s in the father and the
father is in him?. so mr lucifer whatever you call yourself,know that you
are already judged for you purposely came after a man’s authority to steal,kill
and destroy whom GOD the father has ordained on
earth,look at how humanity is suffering and perishing in the lake
of fire burining with brimstone and sulphur, HELL was
created for only SATAN(LUCIFER) the father of all lies and his
”Demons(fallen angels) cos they rebelled against GOD. for GOD had
such a GREAT LOVE for mankind on earth but lucifer
became angry,greedy and jealous of mankind.
O LUCIFER look at the proudness and the wickedness of your
heart. Imagine you aetheist who dies all of a sudden
without ‘JESUS’ where will you be?, veangance is mine says
the LORD YOUR GOD I will repay. the day is coming when the
”eagles of GOD” will gather in the skys and will thrust into the
earth with their sickle for the harvest is ready and full.
O mighty men and women who are born in the
mercies of GOD,called as chosen vessels of GOD, who have
longsuffered for christ, be patient, for jesus is coming soon for you,
and on that day we shall sing a beautiful song in zion where our
names where called and chosen as overcomers and victors, peace
be upon you all.
says the LORD.
To the muslims out there and the other religions
who are worshipping a god who cannot redeem them,a god
who is not merciful,a god who has no love,muslims, buddhist,
taoist, shintoist, and confusionist who call themselves
Imams,scholars,professors,and lectureres, you are
all foolish!!!,when will you learn the ways of
GOD,neither of you is obeying his will and you have no revelation in his
word. I little BOB was once a ”sinner” like all of you but grace and
truth has found me through christ Jesus. you muslims
scholars,professors and other religious students who have studied and
memorize all manner of rubbish into your heads,you have no
revelation in GOD’s word. To have a ‘revelation’ in the word of
GOD is the ability to penetrate deeper and seeing far beyond in your
heart than what you can see with your physical eyes into his word,
and this ability is given by the ‘HOLY SPIRIT’ free of charge if you
diligently ask and seek him .for he’s the Author and director of the
word of GOD. GOD the father DOESN’T NEED ANYONE
TO DEBATE OR ARGUE FOR HIM, for GOD the father sent only
one redeemer,a master,one proffesor, one lecturer,a
wonderful counseller who’s filled with sooo much love and the
power of the ‘Holy Spirit,the LORD JESUS CHRIST to answer all
the questions that GOD has given to sinners to answer on the day
of JUGDEMENT. if I little Bob accepted Jesus as lord
and my personal saviour, I’ve passed from death to eternal life and
therefore all my questions are already answered by JESUS on the day
of judgement,for king david said in (Psalms-chapt100) rejoice oh!
you saints,kings and priests of the GREAT KING in zion, enter into his court with praise
and loud singing, for he has redeemed you and set you free,the ‘saints’ are the
BORN AGAIN christians. O you ”Children of the Pharasees”
(muslims) who has bewitched you, you who’s fleshy mind are sown into
carnality and corruption let me ask you this, can any of you
forgive a fornicator or even at all die for a fornicator?, it is said in your
qura’n ‘the sharyihya law’ that if a person or anybody else
fornicates or commits a sin such as this, he should be given
dozens of strokes at the back,sentenced & condemned to death, does
this explain or
mean that the allah you worship or serve is
merciful?.He has no love for you muslims.look at the beauty and the eminence of
christianity, it is not a religion, We born again christians worship a GOD who’s rich in love,
mercy, and forgiveness who gives us authority and power to cast out evil spirits and demons.JESUS SAID LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THY SELF COS
HE DIED FOR YOU AND THE WHOLE WORLD, HE DID A GREAT JOB AT ALMOST 99% OF THE WORK,WHY NOT ACCPET IT ONCE AND FOR ALL? you muslims are
liars, you behave and pretend to believe in jesus,if truly you believe in every word he said including loving your neighbour as thy self why then condemn a fornicator to death according to sharyhiya law?.Abdul kalaam, your explanation doesn’t call for any verb and proper
noun explanation, you’ve deviated.Build your weak
foundation in christ jesus for he ‘loves’ you.. JESUS REIGNS AS KING
FOREVER EVERYWHERE IN ”ONE BIG THRONE” IN HEAVEN. FOR GOD THE FATHER
IS SPIRIT AND INVINSIBLE AND THEREFORE HE DWELLS IN
THE SON. DOES THIS PUZZLE YOU IF JESUS ALSO DWELLS
IN THE FATHER AS GOD TO MANKIND?.
To ‘dwell’ in something according to the word of GOD means to
exist or fellowship in something. jesus was born miraculously as a baby in the flesh, he was of GOD the father and the holy spirit,he existed as one GOD called the Son of Man cos both dwelt in him.there’s nothing like three gods at the same time.As jesus is glorified,GOD the father who is an invisible Spirit is also glorified in THE SON,as well as the holy spirit all in one big throne in heaven.Behold!!!,children of GOD who are given authority
and power to thread on scorpions,cast out demons and rebuke
sicknesses.GOD the father of our lord jesus christ, raised him
from the dead to set the captives free,bringing a new life, knowledge, wisdom, power and authority in his word to mankind free of charge without a single penny..Yes now this
is clear that the topic above doesn’t make any sense at all, it’s
useless and baseless.MUSLIMS BUILD YOUR ROOTS AND
FOUNDATION IN CHRIST JESUS ”THE MIGHTY GOD.”
JESUS IS A MIGHTY GOD WHOM EVERY
KNEE SHOULD BOW,EXALT & CONFESS HIS NAME.
You muslims have a very big problem,the only thing
you know is ‘Allah is one GOD’,If you know him as
merciful, did he send a redeemer to come and die for
all your terrible sins you commit in secret?. I say to
you there’s no Allah whom you claim to be one GOD,
My dear Rehan,
SATAN has brought confusion and deception to all
of you muslims and some christians who don’t know
the word saying that ALLAH IS GOD,’Satan’ is Allah himself, he changed the
gospel of Jesus into the holy qura’n suiting and glorifying himself as one god Allah.let me ask you a question,If Allah is truly GOD and merciful, where is
your SAVIOR?. SATAN doesn’t love anyone he’s a
killer,liar,and a murder he want’s your soul ‘Rehan’,he wants you to perish in his Kingdom
HELLFIRE. GOD the father created the universe and everything
on earth by his own power,love and manifestation does it confuse you if he offers his own life through the SON JESUS for the sake of You ‘Rehan’?.You
muslims are questioning GOD yourselfs.He decides to do what he wants so nobody should ask any any kind of rubbish why he exalts his SON as A GREAT
KING ON THE THRONE.read phillipians 2;5-11
the great apostle paul says In Romans 8:1-There is
therefore now ”NO CONDEMNATION” for those who are in
Christ Jesus.
this means ‘IT’S HELLFIRE FOR ALL OF US to eternal
damnation without our precious redeemer JESUS CHRIST.
he’s described as the glory,the eminence and the
brightness of the father in Heaven. According to John 14:6-says, Jesus
is the only way ,the truth and the life no man cometh to the
father accept through him.
Lo and FEAR not for I’m ever present with you
always even to the
end of this sinful world.my love is true and faithful,I
will comfort
you in my arms,I will chasten you with my love for
my love is like a
rod.I will watch over you and sing gladly over you
just as david
glorified me.Says the LORD.
Amen!!!!
SHALOM PEACE!!!!!!!!.
The Best, bro!!! Amen Alleluia!
Thank you very much brother,it’s time to fight very hard to keep the faith, bringing the muslims and all other religions to inherit the ”KINGDOM OF GOD” before the rapture takes place, for this is the only GOD’s will for us.
It is time indeed. But it is very obvious they don’t want salvation because they’ve been brainwashed by their so called prophet Muhammad.
Do you remember what Jesus said during his time of Ministry,he asked his own apostles this puzzling question,”Who do men say I am?”,one said a teacher,another said a good leader,next one said a ‘prophet’ but apostle peter who never went to school said that JESUS was the MESSIAH( MIGHTY REDEEMER), the son of the living GOD.This ‘prophecy has come to pass’ and it’s a shock and a big blow to me.
Jesus never commissioned muhammed to preach the gospel,if anyone who is to become a prophet of GOD or an apostle JESUS will send his voice through the power of the ”HOLY SPIRIT” because he’s the ”Host of the all the voices that comes from the ”THRONE OF GRACE” as he’s called the lord of host.These muslims are working out their own salvation and righteousness,they don’t want to accept that of GOD through JESUS.
Let us have this in mind that GOD our father sowed a seed which is the ‘NEW LAW” in CHRIST which he summed as loving thy neighbour as thy self”,preaching the gospel of peace to both the rich and the poor to inherit his kingdom for grace to come upon us which we must all obey for he offered his own body as a circumcision to put an end to the old law,which is the law of sin on the cross to bethrothe us all to GOD and him as his children.Therefore the spirit of love,the spirit of grace,the spirit of righteousness,the spirit of manifestaion and the spirit of reconcilation were all hidden in GOD our father because of this sinful world.But christ the an HIGH PRIEST has revealed and unveiled all for us to recieve these gifts,oh!, what loving JESUS we have,what a loving GOD we have,what a loving Father.
AMEN!
stoning of married ones and whip lashing for unmarried ones is a penalty for fornication, ordered by God. If you manage to escape this punishment, you will be put in hell in the afterlife. Punishment of hell is more severe than stoning. So He is merciful, because He gives us a chance to avoid hellfire even if we commit sin. And if you really fear stoning, I think you will keep yourself away from adultery! 🙂
[*ps – if you are a true believer, you will be delivered from hell after getting deserved punishment, and placed in heaven.]
We DO believe in jesus (, but as a prophet). Do you think if you believe “love your neighbour as yourself” will commit “adultery with the wife of your neighbour.” ? And once you do that sin, do you think it is justified to leave you unpunished ? Reply please, sir Bob!
[*ps – Jesus – love your neighbour as yourself
Muhammad – adultery with the wife of your neighbour is a grieveous sin : http://sunnah.com/muslim/1/164 ]
………………………………………………………………………..
Quran 4:110. Whoever commits evil, or wrongs his soul, then implores God for forgiveness, will find God Forgiving and Merciful.
so God Himself is forgiving, and merciful. There is no need of a separate saviour. God did not send any redeemer to die for us, but he did send messengers from period to period to every community, to remind us that “God our Lord, The God is One” .
or “The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”
To be honest this trinity thing is the reason people are leaving Christianity.Why don’t Christians continue writing the bible maybe we need a new authors to .delete add cancel throw out then maybe one day it will be perfect and logic …keep trying wasting time we have is good in trying to do this.
pls christians where in d bible was christianity mentioned and where in d bible d bible was christmas mentioned and were in d bible did jesus say u should serve him as God and were in d bible talks abt dancing and clapping in d church
Muslim are not perfect,but islam is perfect
We must first of all know that the entire Bible is corrupted and unreliable and is mostly filled with man-made laws and corruption! “`How can you say, “We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?’ (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)”
The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it (i.e., the bible) into a LIE. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)”
In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie!
See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.
The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.
It was pathetic to listen to the arguments of Shadid Lewis who was repeating the same arguments again and again. For Shadid Lewis and his type of Muslims, the whole stumbling block is the Holy Trinity. For all his learning, he does not show any understanding of what the New Testament or Christians understand by this most important doctrine. Without understanding this doctrine, no Muslim will ever understand who Jesus is and His claims. According to Muslims, Jesus is a prophet. They must answer: is there any prophet in the Old Testament or in human history who spoke, acted and made claims like Jesus? I think Muslims will have to deny that Jesus is a prophet because Jesus is more than the most eminent prophet in human history.
You guys always consider yourselves as the right one, any valid reason as to why you should be?
well, let me argue. If you are correct, it is true that Jesus said “I did not come to abolish but to fulfill the law”. Then Jesus automatically accepted the ten commandment, including the very first one. Which means YHWH is the lord of Jesus, which implies Jesus is no God.
verse John 5:36 makes Jesus a prophet. Read the verse properly :
“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me”, which exactly is the definition of prophet.
All prophets were sent with a given task to finish. In several other places too, he says Father sent him.
And as you have stated, that Jesus is more than the most eminent prophet in human history, can you tell who is the most prominent prophet in human history and why?
Each prophet was sent to start from where their predecessor quit, to propagate the true religion of God. But for the rebellious Jews to believe Jesus, God supported him with miracles. Read Acts 2:22 –
“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.”
which is also recorded in Quran. Another problem with you guys is that you do not acknowledge Quran. Do you know any other miracles Jesus did , apart from raising dead and healing lepers? Here is what quran says- all in one line:
3:49. Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead – by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. [http://quran.com/3/49]
Quran also says that Jesus spoke when he was still a new born. Check http://quran.com/19/29-30 . So dear Albert, we know who Jesus is better than you.
Did you know that this is the ONLY VERSION of the bible that has this verse of the TRINITY?
*******************************************************************************************************************
King James “VERSION” (KJV)
7 For there ARE THREE that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE are one.
1 John 5:7
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Can you believe that?
We all know that,
1+1+1= 3 (CORRECT)
But, for the “Christians”.
1+1+1= 1 (DEFINITELY WRONG) But, for them(Christians) it is acceptable. (NO MATHEMATICAL SOLUTIONS CAN EVER EXPLAIN THAT.)
SHAME ON YOU!
Now this verse was been thrown out as a FABRICATION. So the other VERSIONS of the Bible doesn’t have that kind of verse anymore. They(Christian Scholars, Religious Leaders) got rid of it.
*******************************************************************************************************************
Now look at these other “VERSIONS” of the Bible.
*****(TAKE NO OF EACH NAMES)*****
*******************************************************************************************************************
American Standard “VERSION” (ASV)
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. 7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 8 For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.
“REVISED” Standard “VERSION” (RSV)
6 This is he who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only but with the water and the blood. 7 And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 8 There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.
“NEW” International “VERSION” (NIV)
6 This is the one who came by water and blood–Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the[1] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
“NEW” American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 [1] the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
Contemporary English “VERSION” (CEV)
6 Water and blood came out from the side of Jesus Christ. It wasn’t just water, but water and blood. The Spirit tells about this, because the Spirit is truthful. 7In fact, there are those who tell about it. 8 They are the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and they all agree.
THOSE WERE “SOME” OF THE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE.
**************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Now, to simplify why I quoted those verses from those different VERSIONS of the Bible.
This is to tell you that the learners or the Christian Scholars and the religious leaders themselves are altering the bible because they found out that it has MANY FLAWS. What they called Authorized Version of the KING JAMES VERSION had already been through FIVE (5) MAJOR REVISION or CHANGES, and so as the other VERSIONS of the bible.
I’ll give you again this verse as an example.
King James “VERSION” (KJV)
For there ARE THREE that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE are one.
1 John 5:7
This verse was been thrown out as a FABRICATION. So the other VERSIONS of the Bible doesn’t have this kind of verse anymore. They(Christian Scholars, Religious Leaders) got rid of it.
Let me give you some example of this kind of situation.
If your Great, Great, Great Grandfather made his last will and testament.
1.) And, your Great, Great Grandfather MADE a MAJOR CHANGE on that will.,
2.) And, your Great Grandfather MADE ANOTHER MAJOR CHANGE on that will.,
3.) And, your Grandfather MADE ANOTHER MAJOR CHANGE on that will.,
4.) And, you Father MADE ANOTHER MAJOR CHANGE on that will.,
5.) And then, you MADE ANOTHER MAJOR CHANGE on that will.
And now, you are STILL Insisting that this was the ORIGINAL Last Will and Testament of your Great, Great, Great Grandfather.
AMAZING! What kind of language are they(Christians) are using, huh. Funny isn’t it?
Can you believe that? You’ve already MADE MANY MAJOR CHANGES and still you call it ORIGINAL?
DONT ask us Muslims, why did they CHANGED it? Ask them (Christian Scholars, and those Religious leaders), why did they CHANGED it? Why does it have to be changed?
SHAME ON YOU!
SHAME ON YOU!
SHAME ON YOU!
“My Father is Greater than I.”
–John 14:28
“My Father is Greater than all.”
–John 20:29
By the time when Jesus said those statements from the Gospel of John, it SIMPLY states that EVEN Jesus told YOU their DIFFERENCE between Him and God. In short, GOD is DIFFERENT from Jesus himself. SIMPLE BASIC COMMON SENSE.
“When He (Jesus) was eight days old, He (Jesus) was circumcised, and named Jesus by the Angel when He (jesus) was in his mothers womb.”
Luke 2:21
((((((((NOTE: “When He (Jesus) was eight days old, He (Jesus) was circumcised,”)))))))
*************GOD GETTING CIRCUMCISED?************
Question: Who was in his mothers womb?
Answer: Jesus.
Question: How did He (Jesus) come out from there?
Answer: Like you and me. In which mary carried him for NINE (9) MONTHS.
I’m asking if you were the nurse 2000 years ago, can you for a moment would think that this puny little creature, in which mary carried him for NINE (9) MONTHS is your God?
ASTAGFIRUALLAH!
No! The human mind repels the idea that this puny little creature which Mary carried him for nine (9) months.
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“Son of Man”
Son= Jesus
Man= Mary
***************************This refers to the verse from the statement below***********************
“How much less is man, who is but a maggot — And the son of man, who is only a worm!”
Job 25:4-6
The Jesus of the NT – Two historical figures: a Priestly Messiah of the line of sister of Aaron (not Zadok) who was the Koranic Issa ibn Maryam (Jesus son of Mary), and who died in about 200 B.C., and a Yashua Bar Nagara (Jesus the son of Carpenter) who was a royal Messiah, having been a recognized descendant of David. It was this second historical Jesus who was crucified in c.AD 30 when he tried to seize power in the Palestinian Jerusalem as the rightful Christ King, and so replace the non-Israelite Herodian line. This Jesus was not a religious figure at all, but a political one: a failed claimant to the Davidic throne. It was Paul who transformed him into a God.
Esaias 29:
11 And all these things shall be to you as the words of this sealed book, which if they shall give to a learned man, saying, Read this, he shall then say, I cannot read [it], for it is sealed.
12 And this book shall be given into the hands of a man that is unlearned, and [one] shall say to him, Read this; and he shall say, I am not learned.
13 And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and they honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: but in vain do they worship me, TEACHING THE COMMANDMENTS AND DOCTRINES OF MEN.
1. The sealed Book refers to the Glorious Quran.
2. Given to a unlearned – [no knowledge of the previous Book], man – The Prophet Muhammad – SEAL OF THE PROPHETS.
3. The HYPOCRITES who follow the commandments and doctrines of men, who try to ACT AS GOD!
AQ 45:06
These are the verses of ALLAH which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after ALLAH and HIS verses will they believe?
i wonder why every christian member as own word in writing Bible..most people add their own view in addition to what you so call men o wrote them..example.Romance got different Bible,why please..
aquestion for christians
if your wife was chopped with an axe , would you wear an axe symbol?!
of course most of us would but seriously we are speaking about your god jesus .
in your religion he was torchered on the christ
why would you wear it?!
Jesus claimed that He is God and for that He was proclaimed by Jewish high priest to be a Blasphemer and that is why they insisted on His crucifixion. If they were right then Jesus whether a prophet or not would be an evil prophet unless He was and is God. If He is God then when He revealed to mankind new intimate information about how God exists in the form or a Triune being then we murdered God because He gave Himself for our salvation.
When members of Islam state that they recognize Jesus to be a prophet it logically means that they think He was evil by claiming to be God and that He was crucified justly.
Also logically if Jesus is God as I believe then who is Muhammed? As Jesus told us any who come after Him are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Just another guy pretending to be sent from God to try to destroy the true faith started by Jesus Christ. Good luck with that, you have been working at it for 1350 years and the devil has been working at it for two thousand years. Neither will succeed in the end.
It is my prayer for the members of Islam who in their heart really wish to know, love and serve the God who created us that God will finally give you the grace to recognize that Jesus is the one true God. He is not only God the Son, whom we credit for His presence in Christ by way of communication with mankind in Christ, but He is the physical manifestation of all the persons in God. The Trinity is present within Him. Then falling down in submission to the true God you can really love the one true God. Jesus, the Blessed Trinity revealed.
Is TRINITY in the BIBLE? Is the name of Jesus found in the Old Testament?
The Surprising Origins of the Trinity Doctrine
by United Church of God
1. Different ideas about Christ’s divinity lead to conflict
2. Debate over the nature of God at the Council of Nicaea
3. Nicene decision didn’t end the debate
4. Debate shifts to the nature of the Holy Spirit
5. Ongoing disputes lead to the Council of Constantinople
6. The Trinity becomes official doctrine
7. Other beliefs about the nature of God banned
8. Trinity doctrine decided by trial and error
9. Why believe a teaching that isn’t biblical?
This, in brief, is the amazing story of how the doctrine of the Trinity came to be introduced—and how those who refused to accept it came to be branded as heretics or unbelievers.
But should we really base our view of God on a doctrine that isn’t spelled out in the Bible, that wasn’t formalized until three centuries after the time of Jesus Christ and the apostles, that was debated and argued for decades (not to mention for centuries since), that was imposed by religious councils presided over by novices or nonbelievers and that was “decided by the method of trial and error”?
Of course not. We should instead look to the Word of God—not to ideas of men—to see how our Creator reveals Himself!
That said I have never had a problem with the passion that members of Islam have for their faith it is only that their faith is false. I wish we had more Christians with your passion and more members of Islam who had greater gifts in philosophical research.
Jesus said, “I and the father are one.” “If you have seen me you have seen the father.” “Before Abraham came into being I am.” ‘ Beware All who come after me,”
Matthew 7 -15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
We have no killing houses for Muslims nor do we sell Muslim blood for Christians to wash their hands in, This is being done by members of ISLAM The evil is yours the fruit of this evil will be your undoing.
I have a lot of respect for Islam.
I want to know more about Islam I believe they have a lot of respect for woman and muslim woman have a lot of respect for men.
no that’s true at all
What do you respect about Islam?
when everyone is over picking apart religion can you get back to the real issue… god I love and our father is your father no matter what colour or creed or denomination. love your father and serve him when you can to the best of your ability. Jesus is the one who will save us at the end, it was said by Jesus that Muhammad would come and god bless him he did. ONE GOD FOR ALL… PEACE …no to extremism…….. JH
Where did Jesus say that Muhammad would come? Kindly enlighten.
when God speaks with majestic authority, God use We/I/Us/Me, but you can NEVER find verses referring to god as “They/Their”.
Then God said, “Let Us make man ‘in Our image, according to Our likeness’; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Genesis 1:26
God was speaking with majestic authority thus using Us/Our in Gen1:26.
God said clearly “in Our Image according to Our likeness” referring to mankind becoming rulers and creators on earth. Not by any means using the physical of God to create shape of man and female, but rather representation to that of God that have dominance of universe, but for mankind they having dominance over other living creature on earth.
And God created man ‘in His (verse do Not use THEIR) own image, in the image of God’ created He him; male and female created He them. Genesis 1:27
And if we use Christian logic. Whose image was verse referring to? Father? As Christians should know that Word and Spirit do not have image.
Do Christians believe Father/Word/Holy Spirit have image or all three were imageless?
What is your interpretation of Gen 1:27?
Kindly also tell us which logic (not Christian, I presume) you are using to interpret Genesis 1:27.
Jesus is a Prophet.God is one.
There is no other excepts God.
your religion is urs , and my religion is mine . im muslim and i tolerate every religion. but i just believe in islam. i don’t care if u had 3 gods or trinity. but i think the truth is “just one god who created this world” if u all confuse with these things, u can read Qur’an and bible. then u can understand between islam and christ. u will know who is the truth religion in this world. sorry for bad english
Jesus definitely claims he was god or had special relationship besides that of a prophet and messenger with god
jesesus christ, the son of mery can never be God.he was a messenger of God. Thus that mean Abraham, Moses, Noah, Lot, Jecob, Adam, Enoch, and all the prophet who never say jesus is lord will not enter heaven? When jesus was dead for 3 days, who was controlling the univers? If you believe in onley jesus without believing in the rest of the prophets then you are totaly gone astray. You can’t believe in some of the phophets and leave some. All of them are sent from God. And Allah is one. Enough is Allah for a witness between all the matters which they dispute. Allah alone know the unseen.
Jesus the son of mery was not God but a messenger of God and He was sent to only the Israel people Matt. 15 vs 24 But He (jesus) answered, i was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But as for ‘Annabi’ Mohammed S. A. W He was sent to the whole nation. SURAH 3 vs 49- and (Allah) will make him (jesus) a messenger to the children of Israel. SURAH 16 vs 102- say (O Muhammed PBUH) The holy spirit (angel gabriel) has brought it (the Qur’an) down from your lord with truth that it make firm and strengthen (the faith of) those who believe, and as a guidance and glad tiding to those who have submitted (to Allai as muslims). This angle that is mentoin in gloriouse Qur’an as the bringer of gloriouse Qur’an to the prophet mohammed PBUH. Is the same angle that is mentioned in Revelation 14 vs 6-7 Then i saw another angle flying in the midst of hearven, having the everlasting gosple(Qur’an) to preach to those who dwell on earth – to every nation, triabe, tongue, ane people saying with a loud voice fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water
based on truth there is very little to support Islam there is no real reason why most Muslims would convert to Islam
Amidu Bashiru, please wipe it from your mind that Jesus Christ is a prophet. because you are getting everything wrong.
Peoples everything in the word spit into who life and dead,dark and light,good and bad.muslims did u ever look deep inside u to see that something is missing and that is the spirit of God.did u ever have the freedom that God gave u to chose your own way did u ever feel the love of God,the peace of God?????jesus is the way u must to follow the way to the light and on that cross he dyed for us suffering u know why?????cus God love us he came into the word to show us who is the God what God want from us what the really LOVE is.Love is sacrifice.a father give his life for his son if he needs to.God Is not a master to who u need to serve God is our father he showed us his love unconditional love on that cross hi only from u love as u love u father and he want to love your brothers not to kill them.and Muslims we have to admitted we all are brothers we have the same father who create us.And we have a master who control us by fear.killing,forcing,suffering hate(Cus u hate cristians this is the reason for crimes)u learn that your monster put that in your mind and chain your heart.he is the enemy of God and this is Allah he is agains the love he don’t feel any mercy he use u to kill to produce suffering to distroi soul only Cus he hate God He Hate Jesus.
The Bible says that Jesus was God’s servant
‘Behold, My servant, whom I have chosen, in whom My soul is well pleased.’ (Matt 12:18) Since Jesus is God’s servant, Jesus can not be God.
John 6:
14 The men, therefore, seeing what signs he did, said [that], This is truly the prophet that cometh into the world.
15 Jesus therefore perceiving that they were about to come and take him by force, to
make him king, withdrew again into the mountain himself alone.
Jesus is the true prophet from God. God the Father created Jesus, first, Jesus was made from his Father – God, the “first born of ALL creation. This means he has no mother, only the Father, who is God. God made Jesus in His own exact image, so Jesus has all the attributes of his Father, that is whay he is also God, but Jesus also says the Father is greater then he is.
Being Born or created is the same meaning. Jesus was the first thing God created in all creation. Jesus was along side his Father in the creation process to create, God the Father working through Jesus to bring about everything else in creation. This is why Jesus is also mention in scripture giving him credit for creating all, including your Mohommad. Jesus is the true prophet of God, His only Son and God, but not God the Father is eternal and has no begining. Jesus has a begining, it was at creation, the first born of all creation, the Father does not, He is eternal – God.
Disciples did not believe Jesus was God
The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus was raised to heaven. Throughout this period, they never referred to Jesus as God. For instance Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed a crowd saying:
‘Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.’ (Acts 2:22)
For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God (Confirmed In Matthew 12:18)
‘The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.’ (Acts 3:13)
‘God raised up his servant’ (Acts 3:26)
Faisal
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing: it is my Father that glorifieth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God;
Joh 8:55 and ye have not known him: but I know him; and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be like unto you, a liar: but I know him, and keep his word.
Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
Joh 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.
Jesus said he existed before Abraham. How can that be Faisal?
Jesus, is the first born of ALL creation.
Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
Col 1:16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
Col 1:17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
God the Father birthed, created made (all the same meaning) His Son Jesus and then with His Son Jesus created all things that we see today. Because Jesus said he was God’s son he was also saying, he was created in Gods exact likeness, his image. They are identical. And at the same time, the Father, God, the one true God is greater then Jesus His only Son.
The Jews, the pharisees knew this was exactly what Jesus was saying and that is why they took of stones to kill him. They thought Jesus was committing blasphemy saying He was God’s Son. Which meant, he was just as the Father, God.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.
Joh 10:31 The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),
Joh 10:36 say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do them, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.
This is what the scripture says Faisal, Jesus was sent by the Father and he existed before everything was created. Jesus and the Father together created all things together. Jesus was created, birthed, made came forth from the Father. Jesus is there also God and he is from God the Fathers, his only Son.
John 17
1 These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his :eyes to :heaven, he said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy :Son, that the Son may glorify thee:
2 even as thou gavest him authority over all flesh, that whatever thou hast given him, to them he should give eternal life.
3 And this is the eternal life, to know thee the only true God, and whom thou didst send, Jesus Christ.
4 I glorified thee on :earth, having accomplished the work which thou hast given me to do.
5 And now glorify THOU me with thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I manifested thy :name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy :word.
7 Now they know that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are from thee:
8 because the words which thou gavest me I have given to them; and they received them, and truly knew that I came forth from thee, and they believed that THOU didst send me.
THIS IS WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE WORD… THE BOOK…The BIBLE, Faisal. You can deny it, bit this is what is written in the Word, this is what OUR scripture says. The Bible is NOT the Koran. The Bible was NOT written from the same god of the Koran. That is why you do not believe what the Bible says and you fight against what I show you what is written in the Bible. You are not a believer, I am. There is a difference. I understand and except this, you can not.
Joh 6:14 When therefore the people saw the sign which he did, they said, This is of a truth the prophet that cometh into the world.
Joh 6:15 Jesus therefore perceiving that they were about to come and take him by force, to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain himself alone.
Faisal M. Diron. Again you prove you do not know anything about the Bible and what it is teaching here. You are in error again.
This crowd of people who wanted to make Christ their King forcefully were not his Disciples. You missed the Mark again Faisal, Jesus these people were the Jews, the lost sheep of Israel the Jesus was sent to save. Jesus did not come to make his Fathers Kingdom here on the earth on his first coming to the earth. The Fathers foot stool is the earth; earth not his royal habitation. Apostates see this earth as God’s Kingdom when in fact the Kingdom of God starts within you. The earth is a place to grow up and mature the Sons of God, not a place to conquor and dwell forever. Jesus said His Kingdom was not of this world otherwise his servants would fight for it. Real Christians will not fight for this world because it is Satan’s Kingdom. The Muslims are fighting for this World and Apostate Christians are fighting for this world but true believers in Christ will not fight for this world because they know it is NOT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Muslims are fighting for SATAN kingdom, that is why they kill, rape, steal and destroy every one that is not a Muslim. They are doing will of their true father, Satan.
Also you failed to mention the John 6:14 said Jesus is the prophet that cometh into the world, If Jesus is the prophet, then I guess Mohammed is the false prophet to bring people into bondage to this world’s ruler, Satan who is fighting for this world and trying to dominate all who live here. To bad you can’t seem to understand this. Many are called few are chosen.
Jesus worshipped the only true God
‘that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.’ (John 17:3)
‘he continued all night in prayer to God.’ (Luke 6:12)
‘Just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve’ (Matthew 20:28)
IF JESUS IS GOD HE CANNOT SOUGHT TO WORSHIP HIMSELF. WHAT IS WRITTEN IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.
For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God (Confirmed In Matthew 12:18)
JESUS IS ONLY A PROPHET.
JESUS A PROPHET
Jesus always referred to himself as having been sent by God, meaning that he was a Divine messenger. For instance:
This is Eternal Life: to know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent (John 17:3)
I can of my own self do nothing, as I hear I judge and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me (John 5:30)
And the Father Himself, which has sent me, has borne witness of me. (John 5:37)
New American Standard Bible S
But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
WHO SENT JESUS TO ISRAEL?
‘And there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside Me. Look to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is none else.’ (Isaiah 45:21-22, Jonah 3:5-10)
Biblically, people can receive forgiveness of sins through sincere repentance sought directly from God. This is true at all times and in all places. There has never been a need for the so-called inter cessionary role Jesus plays in attaining atonement. The facts speak for themselves.
There is no truth to the Christian belief that Jesus died for our sins and salvation is only through Jesus. What about the salvation of people before Jesus? Jesus’ death brings neither atonement from sin, nor is it in any way a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.
Are Christians allowed to do sins whatever they like, just because they say Jesus is a Saviour, what a beautiful law, were everyone sins and everyone goes to paradise, if so why had man in his own earth made laws of punishment at all! why had man not just followed the same rule, a person kills, steals and still return to his home happily everyday, what a beautiful life?
Take some examples: Jesus taught Old Testament Law; Paul negated it. Jesus preached orthodox Jewish creed; Paul preached mysteries of faith. Jesus spoke of accountability; Paul proposed justification by faith. Jesus described himself as an ethnic prophet; Paul defined him as a universal prophet.[1] Jesus taught prayer to God, Paul set Jesus up as intercessor. Jesus taught divine unity, Pauline theologians constructed the Trinity.
“Where is the ‘Christ’ in ‘Christianity?’ “If Christianity is the religion of Jesus Christ, where are the Old Testament laws and strict monotheism of the Rabbi Jesus’ Orthodox Judaism? Why does Christianity teach that Jesus is the son of God when Jesus called himself the “son of Man” eighty-eight times, and not once the “son of God?” Why does Christianity endorse confession to priests and prayers to saints, Mary and Jesus when Jesus taught his followers:
“In this manner, therefore, pray: ‘Our Father …’” (Matthew 6:9)?
The Christians have been denying Jesus ever since? Transforming Jesus’ strict monotheism to the Pauline theologians’ Trinity, replacing Rabbi Jesus’ Old Testament law with Paul’s “justification by faith,” substituting the concept of Jesus having atoned for the sins of mankind for the direct accountability Jesus taught, discarding Jesus’ claim to humanity for Paul’s concept of Jesus having been divine, we have to question in exactly what manner Christianity respects the teachings of its prophet.
Where is the name of Jesus in John 1:1?
1a – En arche een ho logos
“In [the] beginning was the Word.”
1b – kai ho logos een pros ton theon
“and the Word was with the God.”
1c – kai theos een ho logos
“and God was the Word.”
It does show that logos has a very wide range of meaning. With all the definitions and ways logos can be translated, how can we decide which meaning of logos to choose for any one verse? How can it be determined what the logos in John 1:1 is? Any occurrence of logos has to be carefully studied in its context in order to get the proper meaning. We assert that the logos in John 1:1 cannot be Jesus. Please notice that “Jesus Christ” is not a lexical definition of logos. This verse does not say, “In the beginning was Jesus.” “The Word” is not synonymous with Jesus, or even “the Messiah.” The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God’s creative self-expression—His reason, purposes and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God’s self-expression, or communication, of Himself.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one
Now I don’t understand why many Christians would quote this verse, specifically Trinitarians, because what does this verse prove? Trinitarians do not believe Jesus is the Father, so why do they quote it? Are they quoting it to try and show that Jesus is equal to the Father? Well that isn’t true, since the Gospel of John shows the opposite, in fact if we quote one verse back we read:
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
This is verse 29, it comes right before verse 30, and in verse 29 Jesus says the Father is greater than ALL, this obviously includes Jesus since he is not the Father. So therefore how the Christians try and assume that this verse shows equality between Jesus and the Father is beyond me, just a verse before it Jesus says the Father is greater than everyone!
In fact this is not the first time that Jesus says the Father is greater than him, he does it again later:
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I (John 14:28)
So here we once again have Jesus claiming the Father is greater than him, so how is Jesus equal to the Father when Jesus says the contrary? Now Christians have come up with a way of trying to explain this verse off, they say that Jesus was talking as a man here, that as a man the Father is greater than him, they try and say that the Father meant he is greater than Jesus in rank and authority and not in essence.
However so what did Jesus mean in John 10 when Jesus said the Father is greater than ALL? Jesus placed himself in the category of ALL people, so therefore the Christian response will not work for John 10:29. It must be said though that the Christian response does not work for John chapter 14:28 neither, because the Christian argues from silence and is arguing something they have yet to prove. Christians cannot prove that Jesus has 2 natures, they can never get a single quote from the lips of Jesus saying I am man and Divine, that I have 2 natures and I gave one up and took on the man nature, this is non-existent, so therefore the response is from silence provided with no proof or a solid basis.
1-The fact is the Bible shows that the Father is greater than Jesus in essence, the Father is all-knowing and Jesus is not.
2-The Father gives Jesus everything from miracle to doctrine.
3-Jesus begs the Father to save him, obviously showing that life and death is controlled by the Father and NOT Jesus.
For all these arguments the Christian will say as man Jesus is not all-knowing, as man Jesus receives things from the Father, however so I will kindly ask the Christian bring this proof from the words of Jesus, they shall never be able to do it, this doctrine is an invention and not something to be found from Jesus.
So therefore in conclusion, John 10:30 proves nothing in support of the divinity of Jesus, it does not show equality, since Jesus made it clear that the Father is greater than him, so therefore Jesus is not equal with the Father.
One day, a christian came to me. He said. You know what, all human beings were born with sin. I said. How come?
He said. Ya. Because our ancester Adam pbuh commited sin. So, we inherit his sin. That is why you have to be saved by accepting Jesus.
I said. Wait a minute. First, I was never asked to be born in this world. Why is it all of sudden I already have sin. Besides, it was Adam pbuh who did the sin. Why should we have to take the responsibility. And if God is merciful surely He must have forgiven Adam pbuh after he asked for forgiveness.
He said. No. It is not like that. The sin Adam pbuh committed stays till the end of the world. So, you need to be saved.
I said. Nonsense. It doesn’t make sense at all. It is not logical at all. What kind of God is He, not accepting forgiveness. Even putting the responsibility to us Adam pbuh children. This God is relly not fair.
He said. That’s the fact. And you cannot use logic with religion.
I said. Religion is a very important thing that will determine your life in the world and in the days after you die. How is it possible that you should not use logic? Let me tell you what my religion Islam say about this matter. Adam pbuh did the sin causing him and his wife to be sent to out of heaven. But then, he asked for forgiveness and so God forgive him. Because God is merciful. That’s it. Since God already forgave him, his children is not responsible for Adam sin. In our religion, all children born to this world are as pure of white paper with no sin at all.
The christian friend could not continue arguing with me. He said he would like to learn the Qur’an.
Since then, we never discussed religion anymore and I wonder what’s on his mind after the discussion.
The concept of trinity is another illogical chrristian teaching. Please admit it. You see, christian is making easy thing difficult. Actually is as simple as this.
God sent His messengers to mankind, we call them prophet. Among the prophets we know are Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc. Peace be upon them all. Then He sent Jesus pbuh The way Jesus pbuh was born was unusual because he has no father. But this doesn’t mean we can call him son of God. Remember God can do anything, including making Mary pbh pregnant. Just like creating Adam pbuh who had not mother or father. I think Adam pbuh deserves more as son of God than Jesus pbuh who is half man.
So, Jesus pbuh is simply one of the prophets who taught the same thing as what other prophets teachings. I.e. Worship to only one God and never worship any other God but Him only.
If you see how God is working to make sure that mankind stick to the teaching of worshipping only One God is that all prophets taught the same thing even Jesus also taught the same thing, to worship just one God. So, when the Christians made Jesus son of God, God sent Mohammed pbuh to tell people to return to the right path, to worship only one God.
Besides isn’t easier for you accept that there is only one God than to accept there is one God in three Gods and there are 3 Gods in one God as in Trinity? I hope you can open your heart.
If you are still in doubt of Islam, please ask your God sincerely to help guide you by saying something like this “Dear God please guide me to the truth. Because If you do not guide me I will surely be miserable”.
In the first place, the question assumes Unitarianism, that Yahweh is
uni-Personal as opposed to being Tri-Personal. It is because of this
assumption that the questioner thinks that Jesus cannot be Yahweh God
if Yahweh is said to have sent him.
Yet if Yahweh is indeed a Triune Being, just as the Holy Bible teaches,
then there is no problem for one of the Divine members to send
another Divine member to be his servant in order to accomplish a
specific task or function.
Furthermore, all Trinitarians agree wholeheartedly that Yahweh ALONE
created all things. Yet the God who created all things is not a monad, is
not a Unitarian Deity. The Holy Bible clearly teaches that Yahweh used
his Spirit, his Power, his Word and his very Wisdom to create all things:
” By his Spirit (ruach) the heavens were made fair ; his hand
pierced the fleeing serpent.” Job 26:13
” The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty
gives me life.” Job 33:4
” By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and all their
host by the Spirit (ruach) of his mouth .” Psalm 33:6
“How many are your works, O LORD! In wisdom you made them
all ; the earth is full of your creatures… When you send forth your
Spirit, they are created; and you renew the face of the ground.”
Psalm 104:24, 30
” By wisdom the LORD laid the earth’s foundations, by
understanding he set the heavens in place; by his knowledge the
deeps were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew.” Proverbs
3:19-20
“For the palace will be forsaken, the populous city deserted; the
hill and the watchtower will become dens for ever, a joy of wild
asses, a pasture of flocks; until the Spirit is poured upon us
from on high, and the wilderness becomes a fruitful field, and
the fruitful field is deemed a forest .” Isaiah 32:14-15
“But God made the earth by his power ; he founded the world by
his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.”
Jeremiah 10:12
The NT states that Jesus is God’s Word, Wisdom and Power:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through
him all things were made ; without him nothing was made that
has been made.” John 1:1-3
“but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ
the power of God and the wisdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 1:24
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which
we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our
hands have touched–this we proclaim concerning the Word of
Life. The Life was made manifest, and we saw it, and testify to
it, and proclaim to you the Eternal Life which was with the
Father and was made manifest to us — that which we have seen
and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you may have
fellowship with us; and our fellowship is with the Father and with
his Son Jesus Christ.” 1 John 1:1-3
“He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the
Word of God .” Revelation 19:13
This is why the NT authors could speak of Christ in such highly exalted
terms without compromising monotheism. The Judaism of Jesus’ day
knew that God’s Word, Wisdom and Power were not separate beings
but intrinsic aspects of God’s very own Being. Thus, for the NT to
describe Jesus as God’s eternal Word, Wisdom and Power meant that
Christ was intrinsic to the very identity of the one true God. In other
words, Jesus isn’t someone who is other than God, but one who is fully
God in essence. At the same time, Christ isn’t the only Person who is
God, since the Father and his Spirit are God as well.
Furthermore, as far as Jesus being the Servant of Isaiah 42:1 is
concerned, this assertion fails to consider the fact that Isaiah himself
identified the Servant as the very Arm of Yahweh, and therefore
Yahweh himself:
“The LORD has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the
nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of
our God .” Isaiah 52:10
“Who has believed what they heard from us? And to whom has
THE ARM OF THE LORD been revealed? For he grew up before him
like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no
form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that
we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a
man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from
whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed
him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But
he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our
iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone
astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD
has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he
was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led
to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is
silent, so he opened not his mouth . By oppression and judgment
he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the
transgression of my people? And they made his grave with the
wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no
violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the will
of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul
makes an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring; he shall
prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his
knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be
accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities . Therefore
I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the
spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of
many, and makes intercession for the transgressors .” Isaiah
53:1-13
The above passages picture Yahweh’s Servant as the visible
manifestation of God’s own power sent to redeem God’s people by his
death on their behalf. By calling the Servant the Arm of Yahweh, Isaiah
indicates that the Servant isn’t only a human being but is also an
intrinsic part of God’s very own eternal Being! In other words, Isaiah
was basically echoing the inspired words of the Apostle Paul when the
latter identified the Lord Jesus as the very power of God in 1
Corinthians 1:24! And since God’s power is eternal and divine:
“Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely,
his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the
things that have been made. So they are without excuse;” Romans
1:20
” His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life
and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his
own glory and excellence,” 2 Peter 1:3
This means that Jesus must therefore be eternal and divine as well!
Moreover, Isaiah also stated that the Servant is exalted to the very
position and status of Yahweh:
“Behold, my servant shall act wisely; he shall be high and lifted
up, and shall be exalted . As many were astonished at you — his
appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his
form beyond that of the children of mankind — so shall he
sprinkle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of
him; for that which has not been told them they see, and that
which they have not heard they understand.” Isaiah 52:13-15
Elsewhere, Isaiah says that Yahweh alone is exalted and lifted on high:
“The haughty looks of man shall be brought low, and the lofty
pride of men shall be humbled, and the LORD ALONE will be
exalted in that day.” Isaiah 2:11, 17
” The LORD is exalted, for he dwells on high ; he will fill Zion with
justice and righteousness… ‘Now I will arise,’ says the LORD, ‘now
I will lift myself up; now I will be exalted .” Isaiah 33:5, 10
“For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits
eternity, whose name is Holy: ‘ I dwell in the high and holy place ,
and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit, to revive
the spirit of the lowly, and to revive the heart of the contrite.’”
Isaiah 57:15
In this last passage the inspired prophet pictured Yahweh as both
exalted and as also dwelling with the lowly in spirit. This is precisely
the picture we find of Jesus, that as the Servant he is the perfect
expression of God’s humbleness and willingness to associate with the
lowly and broken hearted!
The fact that the Servant is exalted to a status that belongs to Yahweh
alone provides further evidence of him being an extension, a
manifestation, of Yahweh himself. Note how this plays out logically:
1. Yahweh alone is exalted and lifted on high.
2. The Servant is exalted and lifted on high.
3. Therefore, the Servant is Yahweh God.
Thus, instead of refuting the Deity of Christ, a careful examination of
both Isaiah and the other inspired biblical books actually prove that
Jesus is Yahweh God in the flesh.
For more on this topic we suggest the following article: The Deity of
the Messiah in Isaiah and in light of New Testament Exegesis. In the first place, the question assumes Unitarianism, that Yahweh is
uni-Personal as opposed to being Tri-Personal. It is because of this
assumption that the questioner thinks that Jesus cannot be Yahweh God
if Yahweh is said to have sent him.
Yet if Yahweh is indeed a Triune Being, just as the Holy Bible teaches,
then there is no problem for one of the Divine members to send
another Divine member to be his servant in order to accomplish a
specific task or function.
Furthermore, all Trinitarians agree wholeheartedly that Yahweh ALONE
created all things. Yet the God who created all things is not a monad, is
not a Unitarian Deity. The Holy Bible clearly teaches that Yahweh used
his Spirit, his Power, his Word and his very Wisdom to create all things:
” By his Spirit (ruach) the heavens were made fair ; his hand
pierced the fleeing serpent.” Job 26:13
” The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty
gives me life.” Job 33:4
” By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and all their
host by the Spirit (ruach) of his mouth .” Psalm 33:6
“How many are your works, O LORD! In wisdom you made them
all ; the earth is full of your creatures… When you send forth your
Spirit, they are created; and you renew the face of the ground.”
Psalm 104:24, 30
” By wisdom the LORD laid the earth’s foundations, by
understanding he set the heavens in place; by his knowledge the
deeps were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew.” Proverbs
3:19-20
“For the palace will be forsaken, the populous city deserted; the
hill and the watchtower will become dens for ever, a joy of wild
asses, a pasture of flocks; until the Spirit is poured upon us
from on high, and the wilderness becomes a fruitful field, and
the fruitful field is deemed a forest .” Isaiah 32:14-15
“But God made the earth by his power ; he founded the world by
his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.”
Jeremiah 10:12
The NT states that Jesus is God’s Word, Wisdom and Power:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through
him all things were made ; without him nothing was made that
has been made.” John 1:1-3
“but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ
the power of God and the wisdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 1:24
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which
we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our
hands have touched–this we proclaim concerning the Word of
Life. The Life was made manifest, and we saw it, and testify to
it, and proclaim to you the Eternal Life which was with the
Father and was made manifest to us — that which we have seen
and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you may have
fellowship with us; and our fellowship is with the Father and with
his Son Jesus Christ.” 1 John 1:1-3
“He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the
Word of God .” Revelation 19:13
This is why the NT authors could speak of Christ in such highly exalted
terms without compromising monotheism. The Judaism of Jesus’ day
knew that God’s Word, Wisdom and Power were not separate beings
but intrinsic aspects of God’s very own Being. Thus, for the NT to
describe Jesus as God’s eternal Word, Wisdom and Power meant that
Christ was intrinsic to the very identity of the one true God. In other
words, Jesus isn’t someone who is other than God, but one who is fully
God in essence. At the same time, Christ isn’t the only Person who is
God, since the Father and his Spirit are God as well.
Furthermore, as far as Jesus being the Servant of Isaiah 42:1 is
concerned, this assertion fails to consider the fact that Isaiah himself
identified the Servant as the very Arm of Yahweh, and therefore
Yahweh himself:
“The LORD has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the
nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of
our God .” Isaiah 52:10
“Who has believed what they heard from us? And to whom has
THE ARM OF THE LORD been revealed? For he grew up before him
like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no
form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that
we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a
man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from
whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed
him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But
he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our
iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone
astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD
has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he
was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led
to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is
silent, so he opened not his mouth . By oppression and judgment
he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the
transgression of my people? And they made his grave with the
wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no
violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the will
of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul
makes an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring; he shall
prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his
knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be
accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities . Therefore
I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the
spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of
many, and makes intercession for the transgressors .” Isaiah
53:1-13
The above passages picture Yahweh’s Servant as the visible
manifestation of God’s own power sent to redeem God’s people by his
death on their behalf. By calling the Servant the Arm of Yahweh, Isaiah
indicates that the Servant isn’t only a human being but is also an
intrinsic part of God’s very own eternal Being! In other words, Isaiah
was basically echoing the inspired words of the Apostle Paul when the
latter identified the Lord Jesus as the very power of God in 1
Corinthians 1:24! And since God’s power is eternal and divine:
“Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely,
his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the
things that have been made. So they are without excuse;” Romans
1:20
” His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life
and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his
own glory and excellence,” 2 Peter 1:3
This means that Jesus must therefore be eternal and divine as well!
Moreover, Isaiah also stated that the Servant is exalted to the very
position and status of Yahweh:
“Behold, my servant shall act wisely; he shall be high and lifted
up, and shall be exalted . As many were astonished at you — his
appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his
form beyond that of the children of mankind — so shall he
sprinkle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of
him; for that which has not been told them they see, and that
which they have not heard they understand.” Isaiah 52:13-15
Elsewhere, Isaiah says that Yahweh alone is exalted and lifted on high:
“The haughty looks of man shall be brought low, and the lofty
pride of men shall be humbled, and the LORD ALONE will be
exalted in that day.” Isaiah 2:11, 17
” The LORD is exalted, for he dwells on high ; he will fill Zion with
justice and righteousness… ‘Now I will arise,’ says the LORD, ‘now
I will lift myself up; now I will be exalted .” Isaiah 33:5, 10
“For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits
eternity, whose name is Holy: ‘ I dwell in the high and holy place ,
and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit, to revive
the spirit of the lowly, and to revive the heart of the contrite.’”
Isaiah 57:15
In this last passage the inspired prophet pictured Yahweh as both
exalted and as also dwelling with the lowly in spirit. This is precisely
the picture we find of Jesus, that as the Servant he is the perfect
expression of God’s humbleness and willingness to associate with the
lowly and broken hearted!
The fact that the Servant is exalted to a status that belongs to Yahweh
alone provides further evidence of him being an extension, a
manifestation, of Yahweh himself. Note how this plays out logically:
1. Yahweh alone is exalted and lifted on high.
2. The Servant is exalted and lifted on high.
3. Therefore, the Servant is Yahweh God.
Thus, instead of refuting the Deity of Christ, a careful examination of
both Isaiah and the other inspired biblical books actually prove that
Jesus is Yahweh God in the flesh.
For more on this topic we suggest the following article: The Deity of
the Messiah in Isaiah and in light of New Testament Exegesis.
First of all I’m a Christian, Spirit Filled, Speak in tongues.
The doctrine of the Trinity is not accurate. Sorry if this upsets you Trinitarians out there to hear this. The doctrine of the Trinity did not come into existence until the 3rd Century under Constantine when he blasphemously made the Christian Church part of his pagan SUN god worship he practised and testified to – the result was the Roman Catholic Church we have today, a mixed marriage of paganism and Christianity, a harlot.
Jesus is Gods only true Son, the first BORN of ALL CREATION. To be BORN, means you have to have a beginning. YES that is what it means,BORN a beginning. Like it or not …this is the truth. Jesus has a beginning and that was at creation. However, Jesus was the first thing God, the Father created. Read Proverbs 8: 22-36, Why else would Jesus say the Father is greater then I. Jn 15:28
Jesus was SENT by the Father to do His will. Because he was sent that also qualifies his as a Apostle and as Jesus testified,
Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, a servant is not greater than his lord; neither one that is sent greater than he that sent him. (John 17:3)
Joh 6:57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me.
Jesus lives because of the Father. The first Born of all creation.
Colossians 1:15 who is the invisible God’s “image”, “firstborn of all creation”;
Now to be created in God the Father’s image is to have all of Gods attributes, so this makes Jesus also God, but not equal to God the Father. A image is just that, a image. That is why the Father is greater. That is how Jesus can be a Son of God, Jesus came forth from God the Father, ie: born.
John 8:42 :Jesus said to them, If :God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from :God, for neither have I come of myself, but HE sent me.
John 13
3 knowing that the Father had given all things into his :hands, and that he came forth from God, and goeth unto :God,
John 16
27 for the Father himself loveth you, because YE have loved me, and have believed that I came forth from the Father.
28 I came out from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go unto the Father.
The Holy Spirit, is God the Fathers Spirit.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever,
Joh 15:26 “When the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who “proceeds from the Father”, he will testify about me.
John4:24 :God is Spirit: and who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
Romans 8:9 But YE are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that “God’s Spirit” dwelleth in you. But if any hath not “Christ’s Spirit” he is none of his.
Is Jesus God, YES, …… does Jesus have a God,…YES Jesus, the SON OF GOD.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.
14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us, and we beheld his :glory, glory as of an only “begotten” with a father, full of grace and truth.
Psa 45:7 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness: Therefore God, thy God, hath “anointed” thee with “the oil” of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:8 But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
John 20:28 Thomas answered and said to him, My :Lord and my :God.
John 20:31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of :God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
34 :Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your :law [that], I said, Ye are gods?
35 If HE called
them gods, unto whom the word of :God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),
36 say YE of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world [that], Thou blasphemest; because I said Iam :God’s Son?
Jesus is not a son of god
he is only and only messenger of god………
“Muneeb”, Sorery nut my Bible, the Book, says Jesus is the Son of God. I’ll believe my Bible over you any day.
Romans 1
1 Paul, bondman of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated unto God’s gospel,
2 which he promised afore through his :prophets in the holy scriptures,
3 concerning his :Son, who came to be of David’s seed according to the flesh,
4 determined as the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead: even Jesus Christ our :Lord,
Jesus is not only God’s Son,
Hebrews 1
1 God, having spoken of old to the fathers in the prophets by diverse portions and in diverse manners,
2 hath at the end of these :days spoken to us in a Son, whom he appointed heir of all,
through whom also he made the ages;
3 who being the Glory’s effulgence, and the very † image of his :substance, and † upholding
:all things by the word of his :power, when he had made purification of :sins, sat down on the right of the Majesty on † high;
4 having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more superior name than they.
5 For to which of the angels did he ever say,
Thou art my Son,
I today have begotten thee?
and again,
I will be to him a Father,
And he shall be to me a Son?
6 And when again he bringeth in the firstborn into the inhabited earth he saith, And let all angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith,
Who maketh his :angels spirits,
And his :ministers a flame of fire:
“Jesus is also called God by God”
Hebrews 1
8 but of the Son,
Thy :throne, O :God, is unto the age of the age;
And the scepter of uprightness is scepter of his kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated lawlessness;
Therefore :God, thy :God, hath anointed thee
With oil of gladness above thy :fellows.
Muneeb Forgive my mis-spelled words. The keyboard on this laptop I have needs replaced.
“Sorery nut my Bible”
was suppose to be
“Sorry but my Bible”
Muneeb, good chance we will not agree on anything. Tou believe the Koran is the word of God and I do not. I believe the Bible is the true word of God.
I can tell you what you have been taught about Jesus is not true but you will not accept any thing I say about him because what you have been taught you will believe and not what I say. Jesus can only be known by revelation from God. If you are chosen by God to know this truth and who Jesus really is, then you will be given the grace to come to the knowledge. But is by the grace of God, not your free will. Many are called but few are chosen. I pray you will come to find the truth.
If a religion has to kill people in the world, take off their heads, start un-holy wars to make everyone become obedient to their beliefs, then they are not seeking answers or looking for truth, they are trying to hide it.
The Bible says that Jesus was God’s servant
‘Behold, My servant, whom I have chosen, in whom My soul is well pleased.’ (Matt 12:18) Since Jesus is God’s servant, Jesus can not be God.
Did Jesus Lie under Oath?
Gospel of John’s Jesus:
Jesus answered, “I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all the Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.
John 18:20
Gospel of Mark’s Jesus:
He strictly ordered them that no one should know this.
Mark 5:43
Mark’s Jesus seems to ALWAYS be telling his disciples and those he heals to keep his deeds secret. John’s Jesus swears under oath in front of the Jewish Sanhedrin (high court) that he has said nothing in secret.
This is a blatantly false.
To Jews, God cannot lie, therefore this is absolute proof to them (and maybe it should be to Christians) that Jesus was not God.
The Jewish Bible:
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of a man that he should repent…
— Numbers 23:19
“nonsupernaturalist” Interestingly you twist the scriptures to make a point. These scriptures do not have a contextual connection to say the least when you examine the context of what you quote. A deceiver is notorious for this method of argument, and you sir are a deceiver.
How did Jesus lie.
He is telling the Pharisees in John 18:20 that is “taught openly, not withholding the truth to the world “when he taught in the ” taught in synagogues and in the temple”.
The you quote Mark 5:43 and say he is withholding something….., oh really what????, He is not teaching in the temple or the synagogue, He is at a home.
He is at a home to heal a little girl. He is not allowing the unbelievers to be witness to this. He does not want them know about the healing ministry he is going to perform on a the child. He did not withhold any teaching, he held back his ministry benefits that include healing from the world that does not have faith to believe He is the Son of God. Jesus will not share these benefit from God with the non-believing Jews. So he ordered those in the house not to tell anyone what had happened,
He did not hold back any teaching, Jesus always taught openly nd told them the truth,always. He only held back the benefits of the Kingdom of God from the NON Believers.
CEV version
Mar 5:38 They went home with Jairus and saw the people crying and making a lot of noise.
Mar 5:39 Then Jesus went inside and said to them, “Why are you crying and carrying on like this? The child isn’t dead. She is just asleep.”
Mar 5:40 But the people laughed at him. After Jesus had sent them all out of the house, he took the girl’s father and mother and his three disciples and went to where she was.
Mar 5:41 He took the twelve-year-old girl by the hand and said, “Talitha, koum!” which means, “Little girl, get up!” The girl got right up and started walking around. Everyone was greatly surprised.
Mar 5:42 (SEE 5:41)
Mar 5:43 But Jesus ordered them not to tell anyone what had happened. Then he said, “Give her something to eat.”
I am a christian and I feel so sad & troubled after reaching and coming to understand that the Muslims have been mislead by Mohamed & the Quran. I have come to a conclusion which all muslims will deny that Jesus is GOD and son of MAN. That is why they can not understand GOD the Father created all things by his WORD (Jesus) and that all came into existence through the HOLY SPIRIT. The religion of muslim is the work of satan (lucifer) and is of pride, wealth,killings, lies, fornication, and has no solid roots. If Mohamed can have a lot of wives and mary a young girl or kill to conquer/convert then this is not from GOD Almighty: THERE IS NO LOVE because GOD=LOVE. To make sum everything: GOD banished satan out of Heven because of Lucifers pride. Since then satan has always been working against GOD. Simply good=GOD vs evil=satan. Since the time of Adam and Eve satan has always imitated GOD and used canning tactics to work against GOD. Satan is a master deceiver, the most common technique is to use the phrases from the scripture / from GOD to justify wrong/evil=himself. Important examples can be seen during the first creation story in Gen. 3:1–7; Gen 3:12–13
1 Now the Serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea has God said you shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall not surely die: 5 For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 12 And the man said, the woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that you have done? And the woman said, the serpent beguiled me, and I did eat,
and the second creation during the time of Jesus Matthew 4:1-11
Jesus Is Tested in the Wilderness
4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’[b]”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[c]”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]”
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
Satan is using that same canning technique to lure muslims through mohamed together with an out of order and decisive Quran. Imitating GOD for alah, Jesus for mohamed and The Holy Bible for Quran.
IF GOD = LOVE then alah is not the christIain GOD. John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Quran came into existence only after the Holy Bible ( only to contradict it ), the bible never specify quran or mohamed then why is it a painful fact to muslims/mohamed?? especially to reference or write about Jesus and his teaching of LOVE and redemption (to deny Jesus)?
I pray that if all muslims could convert to christainity then there is hope for peace.
Jeremiah 18:12
“But they will say, ‘It’s hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’
Acts 28:27
FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, AND WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES; OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES, AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.”‘
Romans 2:5
But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Revelation 16:9
Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory
ForJesus, Don’t get too hung up on trying to convert Muslims to understand, accept and believe the WORD. God chooses who will be in His kingdom. If someone has not been chosen from the foundation of the world, Eph 1:4, then your arguments and Bible verses will have no effect on them. Blindness, Can’t see and Will not Hear. God chooses who will be in his kingdom. We only share the Gospel, the good news and if someone is called by God to receive it then they will respond to the Gospel. If they continue in the Word and bear fruit then they will become the elect, a chosen race a royal priesthood unto God. 1 Pet 2:9.
lies